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Neck duplication router/machine???

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by Rodent, Nov 11, 2005.


  1. Rodent

    Rodent Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 20, 2004
    Upper Left Corner (Seattle)
    Player-Builder-Founder: Regenerate Guitar Works
    I am looking for a used/new neck profile duplication machine, or a set of plans on how to build one myself. I'm not looking to rip-off another luthiers profile, but instead want to quickly duplicate a customer preference for one of the profiles that I have designed myself - and I'm looking to do this with the consistency that machine reproduction allows for.

    Anyone know of a someone selling a used one in decent working condition, or somewhere one s for sale new, or somewhere to obtain a set of plans to build one, or someone who has one that would be willing to share images and dimension details so I can build one?

    Thanks greatly for any assistance on this!

    All the best,

    R
     
  2. MikeBass

    MikeBass Supporting Member

    Nov 4, 2003
    Ferndale MI.
    Artist: Xotic Basses/AccuGroove
    There was a guy at NAMM this past summer with one.
    I've been trying to track him down myself.
    I'll keep looking and let ya know.
     
  3. pkr2

    pkr2

    Apr 28, 2000
    coastal N.C.
    Try a search on propeller duplicators. Also try Gemini carving machines.

    I have the plans somewhere for a duplicater that uses a router but after spending some time looking for it I can't seem to find them. I'll keep looking and get back to you if I can find them.
     
  4. Scott French

    Scott French Dude Supporting Member

    May 12, 2004
    Grass Valley, CA
  5. tjclem

    tjclem Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 6, 2004
    Central Florida
    Owner and builder Clementbass
    That is a wild looking machine.
     
  6. fookgub

    fookgub

    Jun 5, 2005
    Houston, TX
    I second the copycarver idea. If you've already got a decent shop, building one should be trivial. It probably has uses beyond neck profiles, too... I bet it could save some real time on archtops.
     
  7. Rodent

    Rodent Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 20, 2004
    Upper Left Corner (Seattle)
    Player-Builder-Founder: Regenerate Guitar Works
    ordered CopyCarver plans earlier this morning, and just waiting on a reply e-mail with password so I can download. I think these should be a good starting place, but I can already see a couple of features I'd like to enhance it with:

    * a X-axis worm gear so I can use a handwheel to manually increment the distance of each pass

    * and adjustable depth limit so I can fine-tune an thickness offset from my template


    Hopefully I'll have this running within the next month :hyper:

    I had also been thinking of utilizing this to add consistency + speed when carving an archtop.

    I'll drop a updates in the weeks to come.

    All the best,

    R
     
  8. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    u can buy a cheap 3 axis CNC Router machine. i remember sometime in the late 90s, they were sold for somewhere between 5-10k.

    you might want to visit the IWF 2006 in Atlanta. too bad its held during August. last time i went it was held during March/April. I will probably be visiting again next year to check some tools for our new 6axis CNC Machining Cneter. the IWF is spectacular! you can find anything and everything there ... in all price ranges. really helpful if your really looking to buff up your workshop!
     
  9. Rodent

    Rodent Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 20, 2004
    Upper Left Corner (Seattle)
    Player-Builder-Founder: Regenerate Guitar Works
    CNC is definitely in the plans ... but not in the budget just yet. Great news is that my wife supports moving to CNC when the timing is right. Here's one option I've been considering from a company just up the street from me:

    http://www.dynacnc.com/dynacnc.htm

    For today the $200ish to get the CopyCarver going is what I can afford and still have funds for some nice wood to accompany it.

    All the best,

    R
     
  10. Ed R

    Ed R

    Oct 25, 2005
    I've built a copy carver. I moved on to something else because I couldn't learn to use it properly, and my adjustments were too far out of range, I thbink. I put a heavier router on it and more counterweight, and this made the wheels less than smooth, even after I installed pillow blocks and bearings . Just wasn't smooth enough for me.
    Your mileage will vary but I definitely recommend not making any alterations until you have one tool set up, working, and are familiar with how it operates and performs. This means, don't change a single dimension, don't add a feature, don't use a different router , don't do ANYTHING different. Just build it like it is in the plans and work with it a while.

    CNC is a whole new ballgame, you are going to have to learn, if you don't already, machining, then CAD, then M-N-G and C-coding. IT's not as easy or as simple as it looks, and unless you can draw what you want in three dimensions on the computer full-scale, then convert it to a cutfile , then trest the toolpathing, you're going to have a lot more headaches than a good duplicarving setup with the right frame, form, and bits.,
     
  11. Rodent

    Rodent Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 20, 2004
    Upper Left Corner (Seattle)
    Player-Builder-Founder: Regenerate Guitar Works
    CNC is not a biggie for me personally, and neither is CAD (I'm a software consultant in the aerospace industry for CAD/CAM/CAE/CNC and PLM) Personal budget constraints have me looking for a CNC alternative for my home hobbies at this time - but a multi-axis CNC is definitely in the future - it's all about timing.

    What is really funny is that I'm finding it more difficult to think 'templates' for this and that, and to deal with the inaccuracies of doing things by hand. Designing and manufacturing something directly from CAD/CAM/CNC - the easy way out IMO ...

    All the best,

    R
     
  12. Ed R

    Ed R

    Oct 25, 2005
    I'm no slouch in the tech area myself, and I can tell you it wasn't anywhere near as easy as I thought it might be. I have the same thougts as you- got a template wrong? GOtta trash it and redo it. If a line is wrong on a file, you edit, piece of cake.
    Rarely works that way in r4eality. You have to worry about the material, the speed of the head, the tool path, how much time the bit's got on it, lots of funs stuff. A bit that's got even a minute or two too much time on it can blow out end grain on even the softest woods, and it can make plywood edgfes look like they were cheeed by a beaver. Just some of the fun travails awaiting you;)
     
  13. Hey! The story of my life.

    daily.

    I hate insert tools, and I hate chipbreaker bits (what are used primarily in-shop, it's all plywood or resin parts anyway). When I run my bodies, I run my expensive coated carbide bits.
    Then they get locked in my desk. :D
     
  14. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    CNC's are insane!

    we have been trying to invest into one since the late 1990s. we just gathered up the balls to buy it this summer from Italy. we found American CNC makers to be quite primitive compared to the Italian and German (those guys are monsters!!!!). Also the Italians are way cheaper. the closer the delivery time comes, the more my father and i realize what a big mistake we have done. and we both are definitely not some amateurs in this business. he have been into engineering all around the world for over 40 years now.

    its insane how many details and technicalities you have to understand in CNCing. and those tool makers make life so difficult by showing you endless possibilities and methods of doing a single cut!
     
  15. Ed R

    Ed R

    Oct 25, 2005
    IF you need the production, you need to spend the big bucxks. But for 100 bodies and necks a year, you can get by on much less- but there's a price. You do have pay really close attention to everything. You need to spend a lot of money on good carbon bits, and you'll need a few router motors to spare, and you'll need some machine parts- which parts will depend on what mach9ine you eventually buy. You will need to relearn yoru trade, because from now on you are not a woodworker, you are a cnc machine maintenance specialist and operator, and the skills of the two rarely overlap!
     
  16. Rodent

    Rodent Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 20, 2004
    Upper Left Corner (Seattle)
    Player-Builder-Founder: Regenerate Guitar Works
    Great advice Ed - and not taken lightly despite my current occupation. I realize there's a HUGE difference between consulting on how to do all this in theory and actually doing CNC for a living in the real world ... hopefully I'll get to taste the other side in the not too distant future.

    All the best,

    R
     
  17. Ed R

    Ed R

    Oct 25, 2005
    I dcesperately want to get a decent production-quality CNC machine and sharpen my CAD skills. Working on it! I'm looking at used machines and working with a couple CAD programs to find the ones I'm able to learn more intuitively and that have an easier interface to them. It's all relative I guess.
     
  18. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    if ur getting into CNCs, you will need more CAM than CAD.

    CAM is way more expensive than CAD.
    some people own CAMs and CNCs that can change your CAD files into machine codes that you would just punch in your machine. they will charge you for that but it should be way cheaper than shelling out $5k+ on CAM software and couple of hundreds or thousands on CAD!
     
  19. Rodent

    Rodent Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 20, 2004
    Upper Left Corner (Seattle)
    Player-Builder-Founder: Regenerate Guitar Works
    something to consider if going the inexpensive route ...

    http://www.artofcnc.ca/index.html

    I know it's not the entire package (or even something close to what I support as my living), but the price is right for entry level multi-axis ...

    R