Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Neck heavier than body, heads South....

Discussion in 'Hardware, Setup & Repair [BG]' started by pixelbot2000, Dec 19, 2005.


  1. pixelbot2000

    pixelbot2000

    Dec 19, 2005
    I'm brand new at playing bass, but having a great time learning so far. I have a Daisy Rock Electric/Acoustic....it sounds awesome amped or solo...problem is this: The body is very light, of course and the neck is heavy. When I stand to play, the neck wants to plummet to the ground. I have to hold it up at the same time that I'm trying to move my hand along the neck which as a beginner is tough enough. I can't move my hand freely when I'm trying to keep the neck from going South. Is there a way I can weight the hollow body a bit to give it more balance?

    One thing I tried was a friend's acoustic strap set up where one end hooks around the headstock. Doesn't work though, because the bass neck is too long, the strap falls off my shoulder.

    Thanks for helping a girl out.
     
  2. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Welcome to the bass world! You are experiencing a common problem called "neck dive." Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do. The strap button on the bottom of the body can possibly be moved, but that's about it. Take it to a guitar repair shop and ask what they think. Failing that, if you haven't had it too long maybe you can return it and get something a little more balanced.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    IMO - there is a lot you can do - i.e. "try extensively before you buy" and make sure you don't buy a bass like this!! ;)

    Only buy well-balanced basses!!
     
  4. bound

    bound

    Dec 28, 2003
    Jersey, Baby!
    If you can't return it or figure anything else out, you can get a longer screw of the same diameter of the one holding your neck-end strap button in. use a one inch or so piece of metal tubing(get this a a craft store) and slide that on the screw between the button and the guitar. This will help some, you might nee a big washer on there, too, if you aren't using Straplok type buttons. The only thing I might worry about with this, though, is too much leverage on the neck heel. If the extension is too long, it may crack the heel, though I doubt it.
     
  5. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Wow, that's a great idea! I may try that on my Steinberger copy.
     

  6. I agree with this, but it's not always easy to go over the checklist before buying. Something like this is most definately a design-flaw..

    I'm not sure of the model you're referring to, so I can't suggest anything specific. Sometimes the bridge-side button can be moved up to a higher location. This can help counteract the neck dive. This of course, depends upon the body style and the strength of the wood you intend to move the button to.

    Mag...
     
  7. pixelbot2000

    pixelbot2000

    Dec 19, 2005
  8. I have the same problem with my Epiphone T-bird. Extremely neck hevy. I heard that I could move the screw from the body to the neck heel, but i don't know...
     
  9. PB+J

    PB+J

    Mar 9, 2000
    arlington va
    the number one thing for me in a bass is neck-diving. Can't stand it. it's tiring to play, feels bad

    Things you can do--lighter tuners. I really like Hipshot ultralites. they aren't cheap, but they remove a lot of weight from the headstock. I have two fender basses that I swapped the tuners on, and it solved the problem

    change the strap pin

    try a strap with suede or rough leather backing , one that's less likely to slip
     
  10. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Ya know, people talk a lot of smack about the Daisy Rock basses, but that's just a cool looking bass.

    I don't know where the strap pins are, but sometimes you can reduce neck dive with some strategic strap pin relocation....The one on the rear of the body needs to move up to above the center point, and you can sometimes mount the front one at the base of the neck, at the neck joint to help.
     
  11. pixelbot2000

    pixelbot2000

    Dec 19, 2005
    Great suggestions, everyone! I am going to try moving the strap pins first...can't hurt to try. Also, PB+J, I think you're right, perhaps a different, "grippier" strap would help. I have a Planet Waves strap with a satiny black-on-black patterned outside, the underside is the usual webbing stuff, but yeah, it may be a bit slippery.

    It is a neat looking bass, isn't it? Believe me it sounds really nice too and is easy to play. Even my boyfriend who has more than a dozen guitars loves it. It's great cuz I can just pick it up anytime, anywhere and thump away.
     
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Be very careful moving a strap button on a hollowbody. Had I known it was a hollowbody I may not have suggested it. Definitely a job for a luthier because you can split the wood and ruin it if you put it in the wrong spot. I would most definitely try a different strap that's grippier first.
     
  13. george_r

    george_r

    Dec 3, 2005
    Is it made by Cort by any chance?
     
  14. Rodent

    Rodent Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 20, 2004
    Upper Left Corner (Seattle)
    Player-Builder-Founder: Regenerate Guitar Works
    rats ... it's a hollow body...

    if this was a solid body bass, and you had an overly large control cavity with loads of extra space, I was about to suggest you

    * measure the depth from the body to the cover and subtract 1/16"

    * stack a bunch of pennies until they measure this same distance, then tape them tightly into a roll with duct tape or metal foil tape

    * make three or four of these rolls

    * find an area inside the control cavity that is free of electrical components - I'd use the forward most corner if it's available - and add one of these rolls, temporarily holding it in place with a little bit of tape

    * put the bass back on and see how the balance is. if you need more counterbalance, keep adding rolls tightly placed together until you have it balanced out

    * re-tape the rolls to fit this location SNUGLY, and then hold them in place with a little bit of hot glue from a glue gun ... be careful not to short out any of your electrical components, and be careful to to get glue on the controls!

    * close up the cavity and get to playing!


    This does add some weight to the bass, but the small amount of extra weigh discomfort sure outweighs having to deal with neck dive.


    JimmyM and some of the other 'old timers' here might recognize this technique for resolving neck dive. It's an old school approach to a still (unfortunately) common problem

    All the best,

    R
     
  15. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Nope, Bradley. Even cheaper than a Cort!
     
  16. Ok I know this is going to sound dumb but I dit it to my first bass years ago and it works pretty good. just find some small objects you can use as weights and tape them together then put a normal strap on your bass then tape the said objects on the end of the strap near the bridge of your bass. I used long thick screws back in the days you could use 4 or 6 inch nails too.

    There's really no magic solution to your problem except putting some weights. you'll eventually want to change your bass and you'll never buy one that neck dives ever again.
     
  17. I was just coming back to suggest caution, but Jimmy beat me to it. Yeah, I would not suggest trying to relocate the bridge-side button. It's most likely screwed into an area with extra support for this. Moving it up into thin accoustic body wood would be a mistake. You'd be screwing into some thin wood.
    It's hard to suggest neck-side options without really knowing how neck heavy it is. It could be moderate or even extreme. This is actually the case with quite a few basses these days. To me, it's like installing the plugin jack on the back of the neck or something. Sure you can learn to play that way, but why should you have to?

    I'd have to second the ideas for adding weight to the bridge side, or strap. It's up to you where you put it, but anything is better than the neck-diver syndrome.

    Mag...
     
  18. DavePlaysBass

    DavePlaysBass

    Mar 31, 2004
    CO
    I have a leather strap that is 3" or 4" wide and it feels great. The other day I grabbed a cheap 2" pastic strap. The plastic was slippery and I was getting a little neck dive on a bass I normally do not get neck dive on. So if you have a cheap plastic strap that is slippery, you may be able to improve things some what.

    Dave
     
  19. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    i despise neck dive like i despise wet sand in a cold wet bathing suit.

    moving the pegs is marginally useful ime (2 basses). Certainly worth a try though.

    extending the front strap peg is a better idea. the post above seems useful.

    reducing mass in the neck region is wise... the tuning pegs is a smart place to look.

    extreme, but what could help is planing down (careully shaving) the back of the headstock. make the head thinner. OUCH... I would hate to try this on a nice bass that i liked.

    i have wrapped lead sheets in tape and taped them to the rear end of my strap. couldnt see it, but it helped a little. I did this after routing out a spot in the bottom/back of a bass and installing lead and wheel weights into it. this made a mess, was a mistake, but also helped a little.

    Try a strap that is "grippy" on your shoulder. this will help a decent amount. it cabn get annoying by pulling at your shirt. I used strips of thin rubber taped on with strips of duct tape.

    I would take the integrated apporach, and try to eek out small improvements using several techniques.

    Best medicine is an ounce of prevention... I woudl punch someone who tried to sell me a bass that is neck heavy.


    i sold off a kramer i really liked after much frustration and no good results. damn aluminum necks.

    best of luck.
     
  20. Kelly Lee

    Kelly Lee Yeah, I'm a guy! Supporting Member

    Feb 17, 2004
    Marana, AZ, USA
    My BC Rich Virgin had bad neckdive due to the placement of the upper strap pin. Ofcourse, the shape of the body kind of dictated where it was placed. Here is what I did:

    [​IMG]

    It was a $4 mod that lets my bass balance absolutely perfect now. The only permanent mod to the bass was one extra screw hole. I have more pics of my "mod" if your interested.