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Neckdive versus neckdive

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by CyberSnyder, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. CyberSnyder

    CyberSnyder Gold Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    I Endorse Alien Audio Basses
    Over the years I’ve seen people saying a particular bass has neckdive and then others will say that it doesn’t. Saw that recently with respect to the Caprice but then I also noticed that he said that it had neckdive while trying it at Guitar Center.

    Straps are rarely used at a music store and that’s when the light bulb clicked on. To me, neckdive is when it’s on a strap in normal standing, playing position. Essentially, if you hold the bass up with it resting its strap points on your index fingers and the center of mass is somewhere in the body, the bass isn’t going to neckdive on a strap.

    However, when I put the Caprice on my right knee, it will neckdive. I usually don’t notice neckdive while seated because my right arm almost always pushes down on the back of the bass at the forearm contour. If I were to play the bass primarily seated, it could be an issue.

    I propose that when we talk about bass X having neckdive, we specify if it is when seated or on a strap.
  2. Nebula24


    Nov 23, 2017
    Norman, OK
    Feel my epi eb0 is good when seated (usual). Since just bedroom player rarely stand. Does dive when standing if i let go and dont have arm rested on it. Just have basic strap. Havent tried wider/leather yet.
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  3. I wear my strap in such a way that the bass is at the same height seated or standing.
    So, if there were an issue while seated I'd just use the strap.

    IME, people who claim bass X doesn't have neck dive, when the bass is notorious for it, are using a extra wide leather strap with a suede back.

    If my narrow leather strap (or a nylon strap) can't hold the neck up, I don't want it.
  4. I think there are a lot of variables, sometimes folks make sense sometimes they don’t.

    This ESP had the worst neck dive of any bass I’ve owned. 65157111-6B12-401C-9AD5-F9EC118DC8CD.

    Warwick thumbs get a lot of hate for neck dive. I totally agree the bolt ons have terrible neck dive. Here’s the one I had 3ADCE6BD-5854-4923-A872-3046B129E9BB.
    I’m thinking this problem was caused because they probably designed the thumb shape specifically as a neck through with the bubinga body, then I’m guessing they tried to reuse that shape in a more affordable bolt on but the ovankol bodies they went with are lighter than bubinga

    As far as the neck through thumbs with solid bubinga bodies... I guess I’m a freaking magician. D980CF05-B732-4B09-A10D-C8615E5EA5D0. 7F0516F1-A110-4010-AF6B-6E23AB6AD96D.
    Seriously though they can have that issue but what the hell are people doing using a $9.99 yo-yo strap to hold a $5,000 bass? I’ve owned two and played 7 or 8 different neck through thumb basses over the years, nothing a good strap and the counter weight of a wireless pack won’t fix.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
    SpruceApple, LBS-bass, db59 and 4 others like this.
  5. I always use a strap when seated, when I play that's all I want to think about, I think just about any bass will dive if you have it on your knee with no strap.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  6. Gee Man

    Gee Man

    Nov 2, 2016
    W. MA.
    Some of em just have straight up neck dive though. My Epi Jack Casady had serious neck dive when I got it, even on a 3" wide suede backed strap. A set of Gotoh Res-O-Lites and all is now right that bass.
    Groove Doctor likes this.
  7. Nephilymbass: That's a pretty Viper.
    My LTD Viper 256 took a lot of mods to knock out the uzly, but it doesn't dive so much as have a tendency to seek horizontal in an unhurried manner.
    Doesn't bother me a bit, but I've spent some months playing live with an uncorrected Ibanez Iceman.

    True neckdive makes one fear for their headstock and tuner's life expectancy.
    Most discussions on this matter seem to assume a strap is used, as seated neckdive is usually pointed out specifically--when it isn't, the thread is pretty much always about standing.
    Strapped neckdive is a function of bad neck-side strap button location necessitated by styling choices, and can be aggravated by body-to-neck mass/density imbalances, while seated is caused by styling choices that put the knee cutout in a bad spot for balance, aggravated by body-to-neck mass/density imbalances.
    A bass with inherently balanced design--most of them--may dive somewhat (seated and standing) with a mass/density imbalance, but almost never as much as a bass with unusual styling choices.
    eJake and Nephilymbass like this.
  8. charlie monroe

    charlie monroe Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2011
    Buffalo, NY
    There could be a ranking system from falling leaves to Stuka Bomber
  9. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Was just thinking the same thing. One person's extreme neck dive could be another's minor annoyance that only moves when bumped.
  10. bassstrangler


    Mar 2, 2015

    Just another thread about neck dive.
  11. Let’s see. First we need the Reference, slippery nylon strap.
    Then we need a reference slippery shirt, silk maybe?
    The shirt would be placed on a mannequin that is braced for stability.
    Next we would have to devise a substitute bass of perfect balance that would be used to calibrate the system.
    We would affix to the mannequin, a vertical scale.
    There would be a release mechanism to let the bass neck drop from a predetermined top position.
    A timing device would them measure the rate of fall until the bass traveled to a predetermined stop position.
    There may also be a linearity factor in case a bass does not move through the whole range at a linear speed.
    A formula would then be divised to correlate the rate and linearity of the travel.
    This would produce results ranging from Falling leaves to Stuka Bomber.
    They would have to give this process a name... Bass Balance Quotient?
    Then when you put your bass up for sale, every Tom, Dick and Harry with no intention of ever buying the thing would want to know, How much does it weight and what’s the BBQ number?
  12. Plectrum72

    Plectrum72 Supporting Member

    Every bass I've ever encountered dives at least a little when using a nylon strap. Very few had neck dive when using leather/suede. Some still do no matter what, but my experience is that the strap often has more to do with it than the bass. (insert disclaimer abbreviations here)
    db59 and bobyoung53 like this.
  13. gebass6

    gebass6 We're not all trying to play the same music.

    May 3, 2009
    N.E Illinois
    I have found that the cure for any and all neck dive is a Comfort Strapp.
    MarkJC8 likes this.
  14. /\/\3phist0

    /\/\3phist0 Life: It's sexually transmitted and always fatal Supporting Member

  15. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    As with most things, it’s a matter of degrees. Like you, I’ve seen some people swear a bass they have used doesn’t have any neck dive and I’ll use it and it’s just way too neck heavy for me. But I like my basses to sit at a 45° angle or higher. For example, this:

    ...sits quite a bit lower than I prefer. A bass for me will sit like this without needing a strap that will completely pull on my shirt:
  16. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Well, it doesn’t cure it, but it can hide it pretty well :D

    I used Comfort Strapps for years. The one problem with them is that front buckle- the plastic would dig into my clavicle after a while.
    gebass6 likes this.
  17. darkbass

    darkbass Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 11, 2006
    RockReady Artist Relations Mgr.
  18. MordBass


    Nov 1, 2017
    Ive owned/played a thumb and I currently use a Tbird in a band..... the trick is a 4" leather strap. They feel so much better anyways.
    Engle and bobyoung53 like this.
  19. LBS-bass

    LBS-bass Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2017
    Yep, I've never had a real issue with neck dive while standing and I've always used relatively wide, suede straps because I like being able to position the bass on my shoulder and not have it slide around, and I like them wide enough that they don't dig in. One of mine does dive a bit while seated and playing strapless, but I normally use a strap when I sit, as well.
  20. yeah I totally can see that. Also your playing position points out another funny thing I often read about on Talkbass. The folks who pout about bass scale length. We can always play with the bass in a more vertical position. I wear my dingwall a little lower and a little more vertical. Can reach the first few frets with my elbow at a nearly a 90 degree angle but people on here pout about 34” scale lol
    JeffC23 likes this.

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