Need help cutting through the mix...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by MascisMan, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. MascisMan


    Nov 21, 2003
    Dallas, Tx
    Hey guys first here is my setup-->

    Fender Hwy 1 J-bass, Ampeg B2R, Ampeg SVT-410HLF cab.

    The other two guitar players in the band play:

    Fender Fat Telecaster, Sunn model T, Marshall 4x12
    Gibson LP Classic, JCM800, Marshall 4x12

    Needless to say I am getting lost in the mix. I have the Master Volume up at the 12 o'clock position and gain around 9 o'clock. The gain light flashes every now and then and the limiter light flashes a lot. Im afraid to turn it up any louder because of the yellow clipping light that keeps flashing.

    I am considering upgrading the head and am already set on switching out the pickups with some that have more output and upper mids..anything I can do in the meantime with my current setup so i can hear myself better?
  2. E.O.M.


    Dec 7, 2001
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Getting pickups with a hotter output will not make your amp louder. They will just require you to turn the input gain down on the amp.

    I would try EQ'ing the amp. Turn the low freq's down a little, and boost up the mids around 600 hz. Amps don't have to work as hard to produce higher frequencies as they do to produce the very low end.
  3. MascisMan


    Nov 21, 2003
    Dallas, Tx
    Im sorry I should have been more clear about the pickups, I am not expecting the pickups to make the difference, I was just giving that information because people like to know all info they can before giving advice.

    Good points though, I will try boosting around 600hz
  4. inazone


    Apr 20, 2003
    This is just my opinion cos I dont know about the head you are using and dont have alot of time withe ampeg cabs. First I would get your cab up off the floor. You will hear alot more if your cab is on a stand or table, etc. Second, if you like your current sound and just need more volume, get a second 410 cab. More speaker area, more volume. Third, get more power. Get a br5 or svp pre/power setup. I play in a band with two half stacks like you and sometimes a third. Im finding out that speaker area is the way to get more volume. Good luck.
  5. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    Man....I had a similiar problem with a couple guitar players a while ago....Before you go spendin money to overpower them, make sure they aren't hogging your frequencies.

    We named our guitarist "Robbin Wattage" after we discovered he had the bass, and mids, jacked up WAY high on his amp. That made it nearly impossible for me to be heard no matter how freakin loud I would play. Next time you all get together, speak reasonably with your guitar players, check their settings. Emphasize the need for all of you to stay in your own freq ranges, that will help. All of this has something to do with harmonics, and frequencies. We had a much more intelligent bass player explain it to me in person, and come to our practice to help our whole band understand it better. Once he lined us up, we were able to turn down a wee bit, and be heard very well.

    If you get into a fight for volume with two guitar players, you are usually going to lose. Unless you are prepared to mortgage your house. :)

  6. MascisMan


    Nov 21, 2003
    Dallas, Tx
    good points all around guys...I will check their freq's. I am pretty sure they are pretty scooped which if that is the case I will boost my mids...
  7. Boozy


    Apr 29, 2002
    Kelowna BC, Canada
    I agree with MJ5150... we also sometimes have to comprimise a bit tho too, but not as much as geetar players. In my experience, the guitarist is trying to fill in the whole frequency range, which is something he shouldnt do... let the bass be the low end + just enough mids/highs to slightly cut thru. the frequencies we use to cut thru should not get in the way of their sound at all.

    I do have to say one thing tho, always have more power, just incase the guitarist is as stubborn as the ones i have had experience with are. if they wont listen and comprimise their sound for the sound the band is after (as a band) just crank those mids and turn up your volume. I guarantee that sooner or later they will be willing to comprimise. I use to set my tone to the loudest I could have it without distorting while having a tone I was happy with. I relied on the guitarist (who has a way more powerfull setup than I did at the time) to set his volume so as to not drown me out. He was very understanding and would always make me satisfied while dialing in our sound before jamming. BUT, a couple songs into the set he would always, and I mean ALWAYS turn up... there was nothing I could do about it except ask him to turn back to where we were all happy.. he would then get mad and we would get into a big arguement. Finally I went and bought a 300watt combo to pair up with what I was already using!! Needless to say, he didnt try screwing with OUR sound after that. :) Gotta keep those guitar players in check ;)
  8. Rickenbackerman


    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    In one of the bands I'm in, both guitar players have 100W heads (JMP and Model T) and 4x12 cabs. I wouldn't dream of competing with anything less than eight tens. I think you need more speakers.
  9. DaDo


    Nov 1, 2003
    This is a classic example of why a pre and a power amp rig is the best way to go in a rock band setting. You need 2 to 3 x's as much power available to you as your guitar players have. If your playing on stage and not DI'ing to a house sound system it's the only way your going to be heard.
  10. jive1

    jive1 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    The problem with volume wars is that the big loser is the audience and your hearing.
    Gets off soapbox

    I agree with MJ5150, don't let the guitar player hog your frequencies. That sweet guitar tone that sounds good in the bedroom by itself can really mess with a mix. If you listen carefully to a well produced CD, you'd be surprised at the guitar tones. There's not a whole lot of bass in them. If you took out all the other instruments, and had the guitar alone, you'd be amazed at how small a sonic space the guitar can take up. Isolated, the guitar track can sound midrangy. Heck, sometimes it will sound crappy. But when the producer brings everything in, then the SONG will sound good.
  11. Edwcdc

    Edwcdc I call shotgun!

    Jul 21, 2003
    Columbia MD USA
    I have to agree with jive1. Most players set their eq's to sound good when just playing by themselves, and never adjust once they start playing with the rest of the band. Sometimes I think I have my sound together during soundcheck only to find out it doesn't work once we start playing. I was after my guitar player for a year, telling him during soundcheck to take out more lows. He kept telling me it sounded too thin. Most of the soundmen we worked with would tell us(not him) that his guitar sounded like ass. Then he would hear from other players how the soundman had him buried in the mix. It's taken a while but I think we have our sonic space thing worked out and the mix is so much better now.
  12. DaDo


    Nov 1, 2003
    Huh? What'd ya say? ;) :D
  13. MascisMan


    Nov 21, 2003
    Dallas, Tx
    nice! I will try that...lots of good options here to try
  14. Finger Blister

    Finger Blister

    Jul 8, 2003
    Low's suck amp headroom.

    While boosting mid's, cut the lows.

    Rather then a 'smiley' EQ
    try more of a 'frown' EQ.

    You'll get a big volume jump and greater gain
    before clipping.
  15. MascisMan


    Nov 21, 2003
    Dallas, Tx
    cool thanks blister