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Need help with driver swap! Win ISD Graph Included

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DangYankee, Mar 15, 2018.


  1. DangYankee

    DangYankee

    Jul 11, 2017
    East Texas
    I was thinking about swapping a Eminence 3015 into a PF-115 so I modeled the cabinet. I dont really know what im looking at so I thought I would see what you guys thought. I set the tuning to 50HZ but cant seem to get decent response down to 40HZ, this looks pretty lacking to me, but I dont really know. Would this be a waste in this cabinet? Do you have other driver suggestions for a small cabinet to push around 300w at 8 ohm?

    Speaker Options.PNG
     
  2. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    -3 at 62 isn't THAT bad
     
  3. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Is this ported? Sure looks like a sealed box response. Check to see that the ported tab is really on.

    That's a pretty small box, I would expect that this response would be VERY difficult to achieve.
     
  4. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass Inactive

    Sep 14, 2010
    Curious what the volume and tuning is on that cab. We talking HE or LF
     
  5. DangYankee

    DangYankee

    Jul 11, 2017
    East Texas
    This is the HE and the internal volume measures 2.47ft^3 after accounting for the displacement of the Driver, Tweeter, Crossover and support member.

    Yes this is ported. The green is the ported version, the blue is the closed version.
    compare.PNG

    I found another driver, the 15N630 that seems to work better in this box, it gets me to 53.8HZ at -3db, but i cant find much info about it online. Not many people seem to use it in bass cabs. Pink is the 15N630 and the Green is the 3015
    b15630.PNG
     
  6. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    The 15N630 has a better natural tuning and wold be better IF (this is a big IF) the mid voicing is suitable for bass guitar.

    I would shorten the port(s) about 25% in both cases.
     
  7. DangYankee

    DangYankee

    Jul 11, 2017
    East Texas
    The response looks pretty similar, with the 3015 being flatter and the 15N having more of an upper mid hump.
    3015 is red, 15N630 is Black
    2.PNG
    1.PNG


    Does anyone know where i can find the specs for the stock speaker? I would like to model what i currently have to see what the difference is.
     
  8. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Gut feeling is that the Eminence is probably going to sound better overall. If you shorten the port depth 25%, it's pretty good.
     
  9. Rick James

    Rick James Inactive

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    Hoffman's Iron Law wins again. If you want a 50 Hz f3 use a 4 cu ft cab with 50 Hz tuning. Also you should be paying attention to the Maximum SPL chart, and the port velocity chart. The Maximum SPL chart will show you that at 50 Hz a 4 cu ft cab will go 3dB louder than a 2.5 cu ft cab. You'll want a port area of 30 square inches to prevent port chuffing by keeping port velocity at 400 watts less than 25.
     
  10. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    I think he is using his existing cabinet, so that makes the exercise more of the "best performance in an already in hand box", which is considerably different than designing a box from scratch (especially the building and finishing part).
     
  11. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass Inactive

    Sep 14, 2010
    The response of the 3015 looks pretty good though lol just as is.

    Id expect maybe somewhat more bass peak in 2.4 cubic feet. So seems do well in small volume.

    Smaller volume gives good power handling. Tradeoff can be boomy or bloomy sound cause it causes a upper bass response peak. With some drivers.

    I dont know the sensitivity of your other driver. Id go for highest sensitivity.

    Some drivers will slightly model lower and look pretty on screen. But is what it is 2.4 is only 2.4 your not gonna get much deeper.

    Likwise with people tuning higher to get a little more smeakal of bass response peak Not needed.

    Anymore bass needed is pushed way farther by basic amplifier EQ. And assume factory driver is 4 to 4.8mm xmax
    And 3015 is 6mm ish i forget. Got little more room for pushing eq boosting before fartout
     
  12. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    The broad band voicing of a driver is just as important at the low end extension for bass guitar. Otherwise, we would all be playing through sub drivers.
     
    TAZ and ThisBass like this.
  13. DangYankee

    DangYankee

    Jul 11, 2017
    East Texas
    Exactly this. I was hoping to find something that would just bolt into my existing box and sound good. I have built a Fearful 12/6 in the past and loved that thing, I posted it to GB forums and sold it one day because I was GASing over a 4x10hlf at the time. Found out how much I value portability after a couple months with that 75lb thing and swapped for a pf115 flip top just to give the classic setup a shot.

    My goal now is to get close to the fearful sound and portability again without going through the trouble of a new build. I may just have to sell the 115 and build another... anyone got any suggestions for a super portable fantastic speaker like the 12/6? Any good loud portable 2x10's or 1x15's?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  14. DangYankee

    DangYankee

    Jul 11, 2017
    East Texas
    I actually dont know what a "Good" response graph should look like. Do you have any examples? Would it be worth trying or is it just going to give me mediocre results.
     
  15. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Shorten the port 25% and replot.
     
    BassmanPaul likes this.
  16. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    I think that this is the third time you have had to mention this. :)
     
    spankdaplank and agedhorse like this.
  17. DangYankee

    DangYankee

    Jul 11, 2017
    East Texas
    Green is with the port 25% Shorter
    Blue is original
    3.PNG
     
  18. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    From this, somewhere between 25% and 33% shorter than your original is probably around the sweet spot.
     
  19. DangYankee

    DangYankee

    Jul 11, 2017
    East Texas
    I just modeled this with a 4ft^3 box... Looks like I might be dusting off my table saw again.

    Green is the PF115 with 25% shorter ports
    Pink is the custom box with the same driver.
    4.PNG
    View attachment 2952687
    View attachment 2952688
    My total width is limited to 21.5" [20" internal]
    My total depth is limited to 17" [15.5" internal]
    This means my total height is going to have to be somewhere around 25" [23.5" internal] depending on how crazy I get with bracing.

    That doesn't seem too huge.

    Are there other drivers I should consider besides the 3015? I really like lighter drivers.


    Is the difference between these two graphs worth the trouble of a new build?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  20. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    It's all about the compromises you are willing (or able) to make.
    Shorten the port depth by 25% on the pink box and see what you get.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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