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Need some cab/speaker help TBers!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by xjeremiahx, Apr 20, 2009.


  1. xjeremiahx

    xjeremiahx

    Apr 19, 2009
    Chicago, IL
    No longer a slave to GC.
    Hey guys, first post, but not my first read here. I've always come here for all speaker, amp & bass questions I've ever googled. Figured I'd finally register & see if I can't get some help!

    So, this is my situation:
    I play in a tech-death metal band(i hate genre labels...but it works to get the idea across). We play in dropped C, and I play a 5 string tuned CGCFA#. It's kind of a mix between The Faceless, Animosity & The Black Dahlia Murder. We're a 4 piece, with one guitar, me, vox & drums, so I'm following all the guitar lines,taps &sweeps & writing the harmonies and such.

    Right now my rig consists of :
    Sunn 300t
    Ampeg svt410HE
    Ampeg svt115E(older one...picked it up about 6 years ago)
    Musicman Stingray 5 string(active pickups)

    and I'm running into a problem of the low end not really cutting through all of what we play. It's THERE but...it gets kind of muddy towards the lows.

    So my question is this, what kind of speakers should i be investing in? I'm thinking maybe a 2x15? or should I just replace the speakers in the cabs I've got now? I'd really like to scale it down to just one cab...so any advice in that realm would be GREATLY appreciated.

    Let me know guys,
    Thanks in advance
    Jeremy
    :bassist:

    p.s. and no, I'm not your average terrible metal bass player. I understand my instrument & know how to play it :)
     
  2. MIJ-VI

    MIJ-VI Banned Supporting Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    Hi xjeremiahx.

    How are you EQ-ing your rig and your bass?
     
  3. xjeremiahx

    xjeremiahx

    Apr 19, 2009
    Chicago, IL
    No longer a slave to GC.
    well... i used to play with a big muff + sonic stomp(which really helped with my lows with an older amp)...but now i just play with the gain up...i like the distortion of it :)

    on the bass, i've got the mids & highs all the way up, lows are in the middle notch(0 i guess)

    on the amp i've got the eq set to push my lows and i kind of keep the mids & highs even w/ a little tweaking w/ a mid & high boost on the amp(two switches)

    if you're familiar w/ this amp, you know there are a ******** of EQ options. my stingray pushes the mids & highs perfectly, but i have to keep the lows down on the bass pre because if i don't it turns into turbo-fart mode...

    hope that helps. If not, I can take a picture of my head to show you what my eq looks like, wouldn't be able to get that until tomorrow though.

    hope that helps.
    J
     
  4. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    The diameter of the speakers is not, by itself, any indicator of what the cab will sound like or what frequencies it will project well. Don't make the mistake of thinking that if you want more lows you should have more 15" speakers, because it doesn't work that way. In fact most 15" cabs on the market have surprisingly high rolloffs in the lows.

    The Ampeg cabs are not known for a hi-fi sound in the low end. Great standard rock cabs, but not up to the task you have given them. Replacing the speaker cones will not help at all, because most of the problem is not the cones, but the boxes they're mounted in.

    I'd suggest you look into Acme cabs for clean focused lows. Also certain PA cabs may be better suited to your needs than a typical bass guitar oriented cab. Look into Carvin and EV PA cabs.
     
  5. xjeremiahx

    xjeremiahx

    Apr 19, 2009
    Chicago, IL
    No longer a slave to GC.
    yeah, that's what i was thinking...i did a little research in regards to frequencies...and my lowest note is at 32hz, and my 15, runs at like 50hz - 3khz(i think...)

    so in looking at that, it seems like it just wouldn't even come through, which is where i think i'm running into my problem.

    [edit] read about the speaker boxes being the problem, not the cones

    J
     
  6. Just putting a new speaker in your cab may just sound worse! The cab needs to be matched to the speaker or it can be plain garbage. Your old amp head may have soft power supply caps (robbing the low end), just a thought. The very low end will always turn to mud unless driven by very high power with special designed speakers/cab and then you are talking biamping. Get the amp checked and serviced first before you are into $5000 to $6000 only to find it won't work as well in live performance as you are thinking? Just my 2 pennies. :)
     
  7. xjeremiahx

    xjeremiahx

    Apr 19, 2009
    Chicago, IL
    No longer a slave to GC.
    awesome. good to know! i'm kind of new to really getting into my bass setup...so i'm still learning a lot of the do's & don'ts of speakers & such.

    what about something like a powerhouse 1000 cab? Should i start looking for a cab that has a lot lower of a frequency response(assuming my amp is all good, which i'm pretty sure it is...but i'll get her checked out just to be sure :))
     
  8. There are a lot of good cabs out there, you would be supprized what a good 410 or 212 cab will do. Your Sunn should have no problem driving the speaker cones in to the mercy range.
    The Acme's are really good at low fundementials but power hungry. Keep in mind the really low frequencies are good for rattling the stage but not for getting you heard out front. ;)
     
  9. xjeremiahx

    xjeremiahx

    Apr 19, 2009
    Chicago, IL
    No longer a slave to GC.
    haha i hear that. there are times where i just want to be FELT if you know what i mean haha.

    i'm going to talk to a friend who is a GM at a guitar center out by me...going to see if we can't look around for some used gear floating around that i might be able to snag at a reasonable price :)
    i'll keep you guys updated.

    any more advice would be welcomed as well!
     
  10. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    So you boost your mids and highs all the way and leave your bass knob flat and it's not coming across with the low end? Wow, what a shocker ;)

    I think you should just EQ flatter so your mids and highs don't make it impossible for the low end to happen. I think your cabs are probably not my first choice for that kind of music, though you could probably make them work. But it were me, I'd either get rid of the 115 and buy a second 410HE, or I'd just buy an 810. When you're talking notes that low, you don't need a cab that does 30 hz to hear them. Most of what you're hearing is the second harmonic anyway and not the fundamental. Those lows only serve to muddy things up IMHO. I've played 5-strings through many sealed 410 and 810 cabs and never had a problem with the low notes coming across.

    But regardless of what you do with your cabs, it's your EQ that's causing your problems, not the cabs, although the 115 is definitely a weak link. Extreme EQing always leads to problems of this nature.
     
  11. xjeremiahx

    xjeremiahx

    Apr 19, 2009
    Chicago, IL
    No longer a slave to GC.
    like i said in my original post...if i boost up my lows...fart city.
    i'll try turning down my EQ in general though. see if that helps.
     
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Yes, I saw that in your original post. That's exactly why I suggested turning down the mids and highs. Good tone is all about compromise. You can't have extreme highs and mids without sacrificing lows, and you can't have extreme lows without making your cab fart. Something has to give, and in this case, it should be mids and highs.
     
  13. fitz420

    fitz420 Knows Lows

    Oct 6, 2008
    Pittsburgh, PA
    i agree with the acme recommendation. they get LOW.
     
  14. xjeremiahx

    xjeremiahx

    Apr 19, 2009
    Chicago, IL
    No longer a slave to GC.
    well, i just visited my friend who's a GM at guitar center...and he's got an Eden 215xlt that I can snag for $400...which I think I'm going to do. I've been looking for a 2x15 for a while, and its size is nice.

    I'm going to work on my eq a bit more to see if I can't get anymore definition out of it.

    thanks for all the advice dudes!
    J
     
  15. xjeremiahx

    xjeremiahx

    Apr 19, 2009
    Chicago, IL
    No longer a slave to GC.
    bumping for another question(instead of starting a new thread)

    would running 1 ported 15, and an enclosed 15 help a bit?(obvioulsy with tweaking my eq a bit)

    help is always apprecaited :)
    J
     
  16. MIJ-VI

    MIJ-VI Banned Supporting Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    Two different cabs = EQ-ing for two different responses simultaneously = :confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :atoz:

    Matching cabs = EQ-ing for one response = :confused: :smug: :) :bassist:
     
  17. dog1

    dog1

    Dec 30, 2008
    Indiana
    The Acme's, as stated, have great low end but need plenty of watts to drive them. Have you considered an Ampeg 410HLF? It will give you projection and depth that your 115 will never have.

    I agree with NOT spending money to replace the speakers in your cabs. Mis-matched speaker/cabinet combinations will not improve your sound. Stick with 10's.
     

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