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Need your opinion! Set up for tough acoustic environment.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Shawn80, Apr 15, 2009.


  1. Shawn80

    Shawn80

    Mar 17, 2009
    Hello, everybody!
    Would love to get some tips. Probably, some of you have been into this.
    You see, I play passive Fender jazz downtuned CGCF (what is a pain in the ass by itself) through quite a weird rig - PJB M-500 head to an SVT410HLF. Our rehearsal room is 10x4 meters and after 6 months i'm still tweaking the sound. The low end from ported HLF is huge - good for stage, useless for a room. M500 has a 12band graphics and semi-parametric but it can't boost the needed mids to cut through!
    In other words, that thing is boomy and can't be helped as it is.

    What do you think I should do?
    I see several options:
    1) sell SVT410 --> get PJB 6T&9B
    2) sell SVT410 --> get SVT810 which is SEALED
    3) sell the whole rig --> new rig with sealed midrange-y cab(s)
    4) switch to active basses (EMG's and so on...)??? (the band requires "passive" Fender tone)
    5) get myself a girlfriend)
    6) am I completely on a wrong way?

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks for your time! ;)
     
  2. RickenBoogie

    RickenBoogie

    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    You could cut the offending frequencies. Eq's work both ways, you may just need to cut back on some of the lower ones.
     
  3. Thor

    Thor Moderator Staff Member Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    What gauge strings are you using for this tuning?

    The reason I am asking this is that you might do better with a
    set gauged BEAG, giving a tighter string and a little more harmonic content.

    .45 -.105 is probably gonna be a bit floppy.


    Edit: Ditto on the g/f
     
  4. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 16, 2008
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    John K Custom Basses
    +1. just cut everything below 60-80 hz and it'll have less boominess (mud) and more headroom.


    and #5. get yourself a girlfriend.
     
  5. Rick Auricchio

    Rick Auricchio Registered Bass Offender

    The point of rehearsal is to learn the songs and hear each other well enough to polish the performance. You're not performing.

    If you know how to get a good tone at a gig, just do what you have to in order to clean up your sound in the rehearsal room. Cut the bottom end for rehearsals.

    As for "the band requiring a passive Fender tone" that sounds like total BS. Do you get to tell the guitarists what guitars to use?
     
  6. Shawn80

    Shawn80

    Mar 17, 2009
    :)

    to RickenBoogie, johnk_10 and Rick: yes, of course, I've cut it below 100Hz - doesn't help

    to Thor: it's Thomastik nickel rounds at the moment. .51-.118
    Usually Lo-riders .60-.120 The feel still isn't good but I'm getting used to it.))

    And to Rick: the thing is that we don't gig at all. So I'm not experienced in "getting good tone" in different acoustics. And even in this constant environment I can't make this Ampeg sound right.(
    And actually yes, I might be telling the guitar players what to use. Probably this is due to my poor english ;) by saying "the band requires..." I do not separate myself from the rest. I AM the band as well. I should have said that "the songs require that tone". And we all agree about that :)

    What if this cab is tuned for too certain application? I suspect it was designed to work at midsize venues as a standalone 4ohms ported cab. So can it be just "tuned" such way? :eyebrow:

    Cheers!
     
  7. rbonner

    rbonner

    Sep 25, 2008
    That rehersal room size is ishy. Especially to pack the whole band in and expect to get some sound out of it. You might try some BASS TRAPS on the wall. You could do some research on them and build a couple. They will kill the boominess of the HLF in your room.

    Among my little cabinet collection also stands a nice little 410HLF. It does have a different sound than the 810's but with your drop tuning you can use the bottom end it gives you over an 810...

    I always thought it would be interesting to use one of my SVT-4PRO's and power a stack of two 410HLF's.

    There's people on here who hate the sound from the HLF and call it Muddy etc. There is definately a looser sound to it compared to the tighter bass sound of an 810.

    But your complaint of excessive boominess is room issues. I'd throw some carpet on the floor and hang some loose curtains on the walls... Maybe just buy some construction roll plastic and tape or staple it about 4" from the walls all the way around. It will keep the Bass from reverberating.

    Might fix your problem for $30 bucks.

    BOB
     
  8. MIJ-VI

    MIJ-VI Banned Supporting Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    +1 to correcting room acoustics. Audiophiles do this all the time.
     
  9. Shawn80

    Shawn80

    Mar 17, 2009
    Thank you, Bob.) I will check about those "bass traps". Haven't tried yet.
    We did 2 carpets and loose curtains on the walls and ceiling already. Not sure if it's 4" from the walls but close, maybe 3". And this is OK considering guitars,drums and cymbals. I would even say it's a bit too "dry" now.
    By the way, the cab neither is in the corner nor close to the wall.

    $30 wouldn't work, mate)) We live in Siberia - too long to travel for this reason ;)
     
  10. dhomer

    dhomer Commercial User

    Apr 9, 2009
    Hickory Corners, MI
    Owner, Gigmaster Soundworks, Auth. greenboy designs builder, MI
    If your cab sits on the floor, raise it up about a foot or so. One weekend I played at a bar that had a room resonance about 150Hz. No matter what I done with EQ all I heard was boom. Got some screw-on furniture legs and raised the cabs off the stage about a foot or so. Got rid of a lot of the low-frequency coupling that happens when bass cabs sit on the floor..
     
  11. MIJ-VI

    MIJ-VI Banned Supporting Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    Hi Shawn80.

    Homemade bass sound traps

    BTW. Another TB'er posted re the Tonika Bass a few days ago. Do you know anything about them?
     
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Rick, I can't tell you how many times I've told the guitarist what guitar or amp he owns that I think works best. I've also told keyboardists and drummers my opinions of their sounds as well, often suggesting to drummers a different tuning or even a different head. Other people have done the same to me over the years as well, and you know what? They're usually right. I just went back to rounds on my main bass because the guitarist and drummer thought we sounded better when I used rounds. And you should hear them bitch when I don't show up with my SVT, which I only started using again a month ago! I say kudos to a dude who realizes what works best for the situation he's in and works with the band instead of against them.

    As for you, Shawn, the 410HLF is your problem, and even though EQ will work to a degree, I think you're going to find that getting another cab that doesn't go as deep is your only solution. I'm not a fan of Phil Jones cabs because of what I call their "because I can" engineering. I like 810's, but newer Ampegs can also get boomy, so I'd consider getting one from the 90's or before. Also, the Bergantino NV 610 is considered a master stroke of greatness by fans of vintage Ampeg 810's. They're expensive, but they deliver.
     
  13. rbonner

    rbonner

    Sep 25, 2008
    I live in the American version of Siberia, or close to it. I understand completely.

    3" 4" its all the same, I was just commenting on curtains a slight distance from the walls to absorb sound. If the space is sounding DRY acoustically now, you've achieved the goal, now it is gear issues.

    Bass traps work great for deadening just a certain span of frequencies. You may have already done that with the curtains.

    Jimmy, I just don't have Boominess coming out of my 410HLF, I agree they are bottom heavy, but I don't get the boom. Could be my J-Bass and amp just all work good together...?

    I use the HLF on the Small AMP. But even on the SVT's it always sounded good. I do know what you don't like about them as I get different sounds between the 410/810 and 215's... I just don't get that much MUSH. BOB
     
  14. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Well there are a lot of people who really like the 410HLF, so I can't argue with them, especially you because you're a giant biker ;) I guess I'm so used to cabs without that much low end that I can't take it when I have to use one. I'm more about low mid between 125-200, I've recently discovered.
     
  15. Shawn80

    Shawn80

    Mar 17, 2009
    Guys, I appreciate your responses!)
    To sum it all up, I will lift the cab higher though it's not on the floor already. It stands on an empty pallet. Also I'll talk with the others about bass traps.
    But in the end, what do you guys think I should go for? 6T&9B or some sealed 810?
    There are only Ampeg, Ashdown, Epifani and Markbass products available here besides PJB.
    So the choice would be between SVT810E, ABM810, UL610(neo? most expensive) and 108classic's(neo?). But I am really afraid to get myself in another mismatch. No opportunity to try them(

    Speaking of PJB,
    I've read and understood almost everything that is on the net about 6T&9B but just never heard them myself). I guess I see your point, Jimmy, about Mr.Jones engineering approach. I love the concept in theory, but reality might differ.
    So if any of you is sure that I will regret buying them, please make your shot and tell me!)
    Thanks again!
     
  16. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    According to Bill Fitzmaurice, you have to raise a cab over two feet to get rid of the floor coupling. Getting it up will, however, help you hear the mids and highs better, so it's not like it's a bad thing to raise it.
     
  17. rbonner

    rbonner

    Sep 25, 2008
    I have to admit I like the tighter bass from the 810 also... The 215 is also tighter than the 410 even though it is also ported. I would say the 215 is in between the two...

    The more I play the big rig, even at moderate volumes the more I appreciate its sound over the 410. But for its price and low ability it is a very capable little cabinet. I played it quite a while before buying my first 810.

    BOB
     

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