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neodymium vs traditional magnets

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bassmusic1234, Mar 19, 2009.


  1. bassmusic1234

    bassmusic1234

    Dec 28, 2007
    hi all. soo. i need to buy a new cab to downsize my rig for school. i need an 8 ohm 410 cab. i have an ashdown 810 and hate it. i was looking at neodymium because of the lightweight and the handling. however i was talking to a fellow bassist and he said that although the neos sound amazing at first, it is a lot harder to get them to cut through when playing in a live situation.:meh: so i dont know what to believe. can someone with expeirence in both neo and traditional speakers enlighten me?
     
  2. Jonny B

    Jonny B

    Nov 5, 2006
    WI
    Your friend is full of ****.
     
  3. Jaco who?

    Jaco who?

    May 20, 2008
  4. Jonny B

    Jonny B

    Nov 5, 2006
    WI
    I'll be more specific then. I have played with many different rigs, many different basses, many different bands, and the biggest difference for "cutting through" the mix is how you, and other band members eq your rigs.

    If your guitarist likes a scooped eq (highs and lows cranked, no mids) you're going to have a hard time blending into the mix no matter what you use.

    I am currently using a Trace Elliot 1000-12 through a Peavey Tour 410 w/ neodymium magnets. I use multiple basses and have no problems being heard, or cutting through the mix.

    So I'll say it again; You're friend is full of ****.
     
  5. panaran

    panaran

    Dec 1, 2008
    my avatar 410 Neo bumps enough
     
  6. Bassgrinder77

    Bassgrinder77 Banned

    Jan 23, 2009
    Perhaps neo-traditional is the answer.
     
  7. JazzbassArt

    JazzbassArt

    Dec 12, 2004
    Andover, MN
    Ah, reactionary youth. Love it.
     
  8. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Bring on the Neo luddites ; }
     
  9. bigtexashonk

    bigtexashonk Supporting Member

    I suppose there may be a problem cutting through with some cabs coupled with some amps. My Bergie AE410 slices right through the mix with amazing articulation whether I'm using a 65 Amps all tube Kings Head, or a Markbass Little Mark II. The smaller AE112 I use on smaller rigs is just as articulate and able to cut through.

    Let your own ears be the judge. Your back will certainly know the difference between neo vs. conventional.
     
  10. In my experience with owning both neo and traditional speakers the neo's can't handle low end at extreme volumes. I have owned a Mark Bass 410, a Bergantino AE 410 and a Avatar Neo 410. At low to medium volumes these cabs sounded great but when I had to crank them up to push the low end for my band they started to fart out. Especially when I hit my low B notes. Don't get me wrong I am not dissing the neo's. They sound great for certin situations but IMO they can't push the bottom end when your in a loud situation.

    I own an Avatar neo 410. And it's great for my small club gigs when I am just using it to hear myself on stage and I am going through a PA system. But when I am not going through a PA and I have to put bottom into my band the neo's can't handle it. Now granted I play in a loud cover band. So my situation is the exception to many of the rules. My band also does a lot of dance mix stuff that needs the boominess of the bass to make the songs sound good. But I have yet to own a neo cab that can do what my Ampeg cab or my 215 cab with traditional speakers can do.

    I do want to try an Epifani 610 cab one day to see what it can do. So I am hopefull.
    Hope this helps.
     
  11. gerryjazzman

    gerryjazzman Supporting Member

    Dec 31, 2006
    New Jersey
    It's been said before, neodymium is just the magnet material, capable of providing a high magnetic field with much less material than traditional alnico or ceramic magnets, so the weight reduction is significant. Any sound differences are not due to the magnet material. Any sonic differences are due to the design choices that the manufacturer made when he designed the driver (magnet strength, cone material / shape / weight, voice coil dimensions / former material, wire gauge, gap size, suspension material, shape, stiffness, etc, etc. etc). Neo drivers haven't been around that long so there are fewer designs than traditional drivers so far. With that said, it is possible that a particular neo driver design isn't very good and could sound like a$$. BUT it doesn't mean that all neo drivers sound a certain way compared to traditional drivers BECAUSE they are neos.

    With that said, I have used Eminence Deltalite II 2510's 2512's and the 3015LF. While the LF is really a true woofer, the others are more "full range" and I have to say, in particular, that the 2510's have no trouble in the midrange. Alough I have not gigged with them at this point, I can make them bark really well if I want to and I would expect that they would not have a problem cutting through.
     
  12. Absentia

    Absentia

    Feb 25, 2009
    my little cmd 102p cut slices through everything better than my 1000watt 6x10 rig and it's 1/4 of the power.
     
  13. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    FWIW, Tony Lucas (from Eminence) did a nice article on ceramic versus neodymium magnets in issue #2 of Bass Gear Magazine.

    Tom.
     
  14. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    It's nothing to do with neo or traditional. I have a neo cab that can produce a ton of low end at extreme volume. In fact quantitatively it produces as much low frequency SPL as a couple of old school 2x15"s despite being a fraction of the size and weight.

    The right neo cab will flatten almost any ferrite magnet cab. The wrong one won't. Magnet material is irrelevant but the better neo magnet drivers are the state of the art and a few generations ahead of any ferrite models.

    Alex
     
  15. CosmicRay

    CosmicRay Supporting Member

    I use an Epi 410 UL - it's lightweight but has more mid range than I like.
    I'm going to sacrifice weight for tone when the Bag End Q10BX-D arrives....
     
  16. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Dude!!! I am soooooo jealous! :eek: I heard that head at Winter NAMM, and it was extremely impressive. I really look to getting a chance to spend some time with a King's Head. :bassist:
     
  17. Bassamatic

    Bassamatic keepin' the beat since the 60's Supporting Member

    One word - MarkBass Cabs! (OK - 2 words) They are amazing and Neo.

    As stated above, it is the rest of the design of the driver and cabinet that makes the difference in sound.
     
  18. bigtexashonk

    bigtexashonk Supporting Member

    Tom, if we were anywhere near close I would be glad to loan mine to BG. Lord knows how long it will take 65 to get one to you - they're absolutely snowed with business! Call Sam at 65 and tell him I sent you. Love to see the review when it does happen.

    Jeff

     
  19. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I've been bugging Dan a bit, and hopefully, they'll get one out my way before too long. What a great bunch of guys, and what great sounding heads! :eek: :bassist: :cool:
     
  20. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Unlike the rest of us who are jealous, Tom, you're going to get that chance ;) Me, I'll just have to settle for my crappy old 1969 SVT :bassist:
     

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