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New 12" from Eminence!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jock, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. :hyper:

    Looks pretty good to me. I ran a quick WinISD check on it. It came back with a 3db down point of 50 hz in a 2 cubic foot box tuned to 48 hz. Group delay = 14ms. This was basically a compromise because I don't like huge boxes. the bass tapers off a little from 100 hz down to the F3 point, but it doesn't sag too much. A little bump in the bass EQ and you're set to go. @ 600 Watts it will get *loud* - 123db. Enough to make you deaf.

    The max flat response (Butterworth) is -3 dB at around 100hz. Not too great in my opinion but that's why it's fun to tinker with Win ISD. A great tool IMO.

    Looks like a winner to me. How much jing for the beast?
  2. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    My gripe with this speaker is that it is rated at 600w but seems to hit X-max at 190W at 70Hz (using your 2cu.ft) cab. Even in a more traditional SBB4 alignment, it's hitting x-max at 230w (1.056Cu.ft tuned to 43 Hz). A lot of speakers have this same problem and as a general rule, the cheaper speakers are worse. Speakers that can handle their full RMS rating in watts without hitting X-max seem to be both rare and expensive.....

    You probably won't notice any distortion at 70Hz in a loud live situation but it's worth noting that it's there, just in case you ever decide to record and mic up the cab. You may find yourself turning it down to stop the speaker hitting x-max.
  3. Thanks for the heads-up on the new driver. I have added it to my spreadsheet, and updated my web site.

    On paper, the new 12HO looks very appealing on a number of points. The low 0.29 Qts combined with a light cone, and high Bl factor tells me this is a punchy driver. This is further reinforced by Eminence using edgewound copper for the coil, resulting in more coils in the magentic gap and copper for high power handling. The low Qts means they didn't go cheap on the driver. Like a JBL, it is highly efficient, and has an EBP of 139 meaning it wants to live in a vented cab.

    Worrying about not using the full power rating is pointless, because this only specifies how much wattage the 12HO will absorb before melting. It is pointless trying to push a driver below its Fs, which is 43 Hz for the Magnum 12HO. Therefore, this is a 4-string driver.

    In SBB4, at 1.06 cubic feet at 43 Hz, my calculations show 313 watts maximum input from 43 Hz and higher, before exceeding Xmax. At this power level, the 12HO delivers 117 SPL maximum. At the full 600 watts, the SPL is 120 at 122 Hz. Actual SPL will be less, due to power compression factors.

    Much more important is the delta between 43 and 89 Hz, which shows the roll-off rate in the bottom octave. The 12HO drops a modest 7dB enclosed in SBB4. When enclosed in QB3, it makes more noise higher up, but the delta is much worse at 16dB, and this cuts the nuts off the bottom end.

    The 12HO runs out of upper end at 2,500 Hz. It will need additional driver/tweeter support for the upper harmonics that reach to 7,500 Hz.

    Performance-wise, the Magnum 12HO is awfully close to a JBL E155 or JBL M151, but in a much smaller box and the corresponding lower efficiency. The JBL make the same amount of noise, but with less power.

    I'd own the Magnum 12HO. Or several.
  4. jock


    Jun 7, 2000
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Thanks. Good to know.
    Has anyone seen a price on this driver yet?
  5. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize! Supporting Member

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    Is 7,500 Hz accepted as the upper limit that is needed for bass? Or is it a minimum? Or have I got it all wrong :p
  6. 7500 Hz appears to be what you can still see on a scope. As the harmonic order increases, it goes up ever higher. Can you hear it or does it make a difference? Probably not in a live environment.

    349 Hz is the fundamental of the G string, 22nd fret.
  7. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I like it higher. It's all about personal preference but I 'm not happy unless I'm getting up to at least 10K. I'm of course into horn/tweeter territory here, an a lot of guys turn their horns off..........
  8. TRU


    Apr 12, 2002
    Northern Europe
    Hmm, Magnum 12HO paired with a 6" in one cab and Magnum 15LF in another... :drool:
  9. jock


    Jun 7, 2000
    Stockholm, Sweden
    How does the Magnum compare to the Omega Pro 12"?
    The omega can handle more power according to the specs.
    Are they suited for different things?
  10. Every time I read a post about speakers I learn something.

    Win ISD beta doesn't do max power according to xmax. So all I got was thermal max. My question is doesn't Carvin use a 10 inch driver with a fs of much higher than 30 hz? So how can they reccomend it for 5 string application? It seems like the driver would flop around and destroy itself before too long. :confused:
  11. They recommend it because they are selling it.

    The PS10 is a cheap 10", Qts=0.5, but with an Xmech of 0.2952. Yes, you can certainly overdrive one and blow it up. Yes, they no balls in the lower end, and are well known for it. I've played several RC210 and they are gutless wonders.

    IMO, the Avatar 10" cabs tuned at 63 Hz are useless for 5-strings. YMMV, depending on how hard you push them.
  12. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Very True. And the more you learn, the more you realise you don't know.

    That's right. WinISD pro is still in alpha testing stage but I've found it to be reliable so far. The version you can download from the website is fairly basic, but if you register for their forums, they are offering a version which has further enhancements that includes different alignments (no more defaulting to "Optimal Flat response"). It reads the speaker's specs and suggests a preferred alignment, though the formula seems a bit crude, based entirely on the driver's QTS. But that's OK, it's only a starting point anyway. I tend to run each driver in each of the available alignments anyway, just to see the differences.....
  13. I opted for something different.

    Click Here

    This one is #2 of two. I got the first one in same new-in-box condition from a regular on the Dude Pit. Each is going into a 1x15 in 1.87 cubic feet at 45 Hz (sbb4). On paper, they should work nicely as electric bass drivers.

    I've got a pair of these in the garage ready to mate with the 15s. I'll give the 15s a spin as a bass rig, but they're intended for use as PA mains.

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