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New B112

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Quadzilla, Jun 3, 2002.


  1. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Hey guys,

    Here are some pics of the new B112 cab from Avatar (Dave just sent me these pictures). I know that somebody else here on the forum just recieved one and liked it. Dave says it has a price of $199. It has a Eminence Kappa 12 and a Fostex tweeter. Dave is sending me one to review for this site. I will post the review after I do some a/b tests at home and at practice. Till then, for more info go to www.avatarspeakers.com

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Here
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Cool! Looking forward to it. :)
     
  4. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    An un-edited email from Dave at Avatar to me...

    Hi Fred. Hey...thanks for the email...I am sending you a B112 today. Thanks
    for posting the pictures. I sold a B112 to a customer named Bill who bought
    three bass cabs and posted a review on talkbass. He mentioned he liked it
    but thought the low end could be better..and then another person mentioned
    the porting should be different...Its interesting because I had the Eminence
    Tech dept calculate the porting for me on this B112. Their suggested porting
    called for two 4 inch round ports with lengths of a little over an one inch
    long. For simplicity, I used one inch ports because they are readily
    available. I can't imagine that tiny variation would change the bass
    response audibly. I understand that some bass players are really technical
    and want everything to be perfect...and that is understandable, but my
    purpose is not to design the ultimate bass cab. Our mission is to offer
    pretty damm good sounding speakers in well made utilitarian black cabs with
    great speakers inside at very affordable prices. So, please check out this
    cab and let us know how you like it...Thank again...take care...Dave
     
  5. ndjx

    ndjx

    Oct 26, 2001
    MN
    Is Dave ever gonna post the section on the Avatar for the B112? Quadzilla what's your take on the new cab? I'm thinking of getting the B112 with the Compact 15... that is if I like what I hear about them.
     
  6. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    I don't think I'd every buy a speaker from someone who doesn't know how to find out the effects that changing the port length has on the response.

    Plugging the Kappa into WinISD, that looks like about a 1.7 cu. ft. box, those ports would tune it to 100Hz. The cut-off point is 85Hz. This is supposed to be a bass cabinet? Put any power into a low E, let alone B, and that 12 is going to be flapping in the breeze. Ouch.
     
  7. That is seriously weak..too bad. I could see this box working very well in unison with a 15" or something but for anything else....? Seems like with just a little more effort a far better box could have been designed. I'd buy a cheap 12" if it had a lower F3.
     
  8. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    As said in another post of mine, don't judge em till you hear them. He worked with Eminence techs on these and they probably know a lot more than anyone here about cabs and speakers. A few people on this forum said that technically the Avatar 4x10 should sound like doo doo given the specs and guess what, it's not the case when you hear them (and a lot have bought them here). So, so much for computer cab and porting software. The ears do better than these programs (even though I admit they can be a good reference tool to get you in the ballpark).

    I'm not saying that the B112 is going to sound awesome, it may sound like crap, but I won't know until I get it. I'll let you know what my opinion (and my band's + the people who come to our next practice) is when I have the cab and fire it up.
     
  9. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    You're not going to get too deep with an Eminence Kappa. Flat response in a 2 cu. ft. box would be down 3dB at 65Hz.
     
  10. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    I didn't say it would sound like doo-doo - the classic SVT rolls off at around 90Hz (though it's sealed so a shallower slope), for instance Carvin 2x10s roll off below 70Hz. There's a lot of space above that for good sound, and you still get bass impact from 100Hz or so.

    However it does worry me that it won't be able to handle any power below 70hz or so.

    Computer cab design software doesn't tell you how it will "sound". But it's not like it's lying to you when it says the speaker is going to start losing response at such-and-such a frequency. If the real speaker is dramatically different than the computer model, then somebody didn't measure the drivers right.
     
  11. Why the SVT cab sounds so good. Overtones are not what you want for a pure, strong fundamental tone in a box though. Quadzilla, how you ever played your bass through something with a deep response, say 40 hz? When you hear your fundamental reproduced clearly it shows you how muddy and blurry many popular speakers really are. I personally would love to score an Avatar 12"...I dig the price and economic approach but 85hz?! With just the smallest bit of effort you could do so much better...
     
  12. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    I've owned a lot of cabs (mostly mid-end stuff). I've had Carvin's, GK's, Peavey's, Laney's, etc. My Avatar 4x10 sounds a lot like my GK 4x10 in many respects and goes down just as low. My current rig consists of a Hartke HA7000 head, Aureal Exciter 104 C2, a Avatar 4x10, Avatar 1x15. I have the head in bi-amp mode with all frequecies below 80 hz going to the 1x15 and above 80 hz going to the 4x10. I have had just the 4x10 hooked up with no crossover and it goes down as low as my GK and Laney did (the GK was the lower of those 2). so yes, I have owned other decent quality stuff and have done a/b (most recently with my Laney 4x10 and my GK 4x10 compared to the Avatar 4x10.).
     
  13. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    This guy just posted a new post with an picture attachment of the same model Laney that I had and compared to my Avatar 4x10. Ironic....

    Link to his post
     
  14. I did quick adhoc tests running sine waves into my avatar 210 from my computer via amp putting out 200+watts.

    At 65 hz, response was subjectively pretty good.

    40 hz was quieter than 65hz, quite noticeably. Wacking up the input creating no farting or visible speaker pain - but then maybe only 100-150 watts is going in. With 600 watts going in then it could be a different story. It just wasn't 'breeze' creating or trouser flapping.

    30 hz was reproduced as well: again, not terribly loud: if it was a full range signal the higher freqs would be extremely loud in comparison. Also, no farting or anything. The general sense is of the power getting soaked up and not as much coming out.

    With music I noticed I could boost the low shelving on the amp (which goes down to 40hz) by 12db and the cab handled it fine - making the sound very fat. This is at low/moderate volume. You couldn;t do this at high volume because of amp clipping.

    Presumably, at low/medium input power I can boost below 65hz with amp and balance out the frequency response - this is well within the speakers powerhandling so they soak up the extra oomph fine. You just can't go as loud.

    From specs, some 210 bass cabs with good low-bass response are less sensitive....thus need more power to be louder, but are more effective at turning lower freqs into sound

    Either way, you need energy from somewhere to move the air, within the limits of the speaker itself.
    The emminence delta's seem to be designed with power in mind, rather than deep bass response. They do seem to have quite a flat repsonse graph otherwise.


    On some of these threads one might think that a cab that begins its roll off at 70hz will have no bottom end and if you stick it some oomph at 40hz the speakers will shred and hurl themselves out of their baskets at the slightest provocation.... I don;t think this is quite the case ;-)

    BASSically, its seems to me - if you want trouser flapping then most 210's or 1x12's are not going to do it, and if you want flat response down to 20hz with a sensitivity of 101db and a power handling of 800 watts..... you;re going to need truck load of cabinets OR money!!!
     
  15. Or this...

    :)

    Flat down to 20hz? Cool.
     


  16. Well no....but it's 800w, +/-3db@40hz and looks darn snappy! Only $299 each at GC so I'd say they beat out Quad's Avatars by a stretch. Too bad I can barely lift 'em or i'd _really_ be gloating.
    :p
     
  17. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    So my guess is that Magman got different results (better and lower frequencies) than what WinISD might tell you. Just goes to show you that software ain't perfect.....
     
  18. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    What kinda speakers are those Mad?
     
  19. Those be 800w, 8ohm Ernie Ball Music Man HD212's. Guitar center blew them out last month at $299 a pop, listed originally for $999. Lucky me. They are printed as being 600w but the manufacturer in Italy told me the drivers were in fact actually 200w each so...800w. Crazy huh?

    http://www.ernieball.com/musicman/amps/Pages/hd_210_212.pdf

    I still wouldn't mind a small $199 12" Avatar with better low end response tho'...allot easier than huffin' these puppies around.