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New Cabs: Berg HT112 pair - initial report

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by pjhandlin, Oct 15, 2003.


  1. pjhandlin

    pjhandlin Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2002
    Grand Rapids, MI
    So here goes my first thread..

    I'm looking for comments/help with 112 issues that have not been found in previous threads.

    I've been mostly a lurker here at TalkBass and my research of the recent and older threads regarding Bergantino, Epifani and Euphonic Audio 112 cabs has helped to inform my purchases of an EA and the pair of Bergs. This is a great website! A big thanks to all who post here.

    I received a pair of HT-112 cabs two days ago and I only have played them at home. I'm comparing with an EA CXL-112 (I own) and an Epifani 210T (I'm borrowing) and I think that I need to hear the Bergs live on a few gigs to decide if they are 'it' for me. The last few weeks a local bassist has allowed me to gig with the Epi and on initial comparison I think that I prefer the deep, open and extended low end response of the Epifani tone, especially in the B and E string registers.

    On initial comparison with the Epifani, the pair of Bergs with their more present midrange will kick out some serious vibe and get really, really loud with my Walter Woods Ultra. I think that the Bergs naturally shine with slap/pop technique given their refined high end and tight, refined low end. I EQed out some of the high mids and backed off the tweeter attenuator just a bit and found the best useable tone at home for my fingerstyle technique. Even with the bass EQ boosted a bit and trying both cabs on the floor, I could not get to the tone I heard in my head - namely the Epifani low end which seems to naturally complement my usual fingerstyle technique without fuss or hassle. Last week at a local gig I had to cut the low end for the first time in my life when pairing 1200 watts from WW into the borrowed 4 ohm Epifani.

    I mostly play in a piano trio and we do everything from jazz, pop, rock, and will attempt virtually any request. I generally don't need to 'cut through' as much as I want to fill out and support the music with clean, groovin, deep low end. The EA is all about serious slammin punch and cut, and I think it probably is a little too aggressive for my needs to keep for the long term, especially after giggin with the Epi.

    I know that I need to hear how the Bergs sit in the live mix but I would like to solicit any feedback regarding any of these specific issues:
    Has anyone here tried the Berg cabs and noticed an imbalance with low frequency response/too much high mids and high end on first impression?
    Will I likely notice that the live Berg tone will approach the Epi as described above if I work at it with EQing?
    Anyone else with the Bergantino HT112s find that they can adequately cover a deep, expansive and open low end tone supportive tone?


    I think that getting these cabs out of my house will help, I'm wondering how much. Thanks.
     
  2. AMJBASS

    AMJBASS Supporting Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    Ontario, Canada
    I think you will find that the Bergantino cabs sound great in live situations! They are punchy, and like you said have a prominant midrange. I have used an HT112 in Jazz situations, and it works well. Though like you said, it lacks depth in the low end. It has a wonderful clarity in the lower register, but not the deep full lows that you would find from an Epifani or Aguilar 1x12".

    I am currently playing in mainly jazz trio situations with some funk/blues gigs on the side. I picked up a EA CXL112, and I find it to be perfect for my style. It is a little aggressive, but not hard to tame. It is a wonderful sounding cab with a great low end.

    I would say that the EA is probably a more versatile cab than the Epifani or Berg. However, if you are playing mostly jazz, and looking for a deeper smoother tone, the Epifani will probably suit you best.
     
  3. Check this out. I just bought the Berg, and haven't tried it in a band yet, but I feel confident that it will give me the sound I want when paired with the Aguilar. Plenty of midrange punch from the Bergantino, and nice fat low end from the Aguilar. It remains to be heard whether two Bergantinos will sound better than a Bergantino and an Aguilar. I really think that they give plenty of low end response.
     
  4. marc40a

    marc40a

    Mar 20, 2002
    Boston MA
    I haven't tried the Berg's but I do have a lot of experience w/ the Epi 2x10 and the 1x12.

    I share your enthusiasm for the Epi 2x10. It's the best 2x10 I've ever played through... I've gigged mine hundreds of times. If it's on the floor I usually have to cut back on the bass, if it's elevated somewhat (which is what I prefer) it's amazingly balanced. It's easily the best combination of 'oomph', definition, portability that I've come across.

    I think you're probably hearing the difference between coupled drivers and a single driver cab. While the Epi 1x12 doesn't have a problem w/ lows, I do find that the upper midrange is markedly different from the 2x10. It think it's somewhat of an apples/oranges comparison. Now, a pair of Bergs vs. an Epi 2x10 or better yet, an Epi 2x12 vs. Berg 2x12...I'd definitely like to A/B those.
     
  5. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    As luck or stupidity :rolleyes: would have it, I own two HT112s and two Epifani T-112s, using a Woods head (high power, not ultra).

    No doubt, Epifani is fatter but as you noticed the Berg's very present upper midrange really has it's charms for percussive playing. The tighter bottom is nice because it helps the bass cut through the mix a little better in noisy bands. It's been a life saver in muddy sounding rooms.

    Overall I prefer the Bergs for upright bass but the Epis for electric bass. Since I double on most gigs, the Bergs get more use these days (plus they're smaller/lighter which is a real plus). I only take the Epis out when it's going to be electric bass only.

    EQ will help even things out but keep in mind the Epi boxes are larger which tunes them a bit lower.

    Trust your ears, if the Epi 210 is floating your boat, go for it.
     
  6. vanselus

    vanselus

    Sep 20, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    None
    I'm with you pj, i'm a recently converted Epifani lover, and for the same reasons. Whether i'm playing through the DB680/DB728 for huge deep textured lows, or the iAMP 800 for a clean clear punch, the Epifani cabs deliver. Brian is right, trust your ears, and trust this: Eq'ing the Berg to achieve a more "Epifani-like" sound will get tiresome. Get the Epifani's.
     
  7. pjhandlin

    pjhandlin Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2002
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Thanks everyone for the responses. My next gig is Saturday and I don't know what the conditions will be, so I may bring the new pair of Bergs and the Epifani. Likely it will be a doubling gig with both electric and URB, so hopefully I will gather real world experience with these issues.

    marc40a,

    Could you elaborate on the specific characteristics between the Epi 210 and 112? Does the 112 get as low, but just not as loud? And what about that midrange comment?
     
  8. pjhandlin

    pjhandlin Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2002
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Thanks for the reply AJ,

    For me, the EA just seems like too much muscle for my usual uses and it seems to me like I'm working sort of hard with my technique to compensate for how I would like my playing to sound with the EA. I didn't notice this until I started in with the Epifani trial and it automatically sounded like what I wanted without the sweat and fuss. I may end up keeping it, who knows, maybe to pair off with other cabs for when I need to flex some muscle? Seems like you as well as others here are helping to push me to hear what a pair of Epifani 112's will do for me. I wonder if my MasterCard can take the heat....
     
  9. pjhandlin

    pjhandlin Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2002
    Grand Rapids, MI
    I think that I can begin to sympathize with the stupidity of all this craziness now that I am earnestly working to search for the best cab combination for my needs. I'm a little afraid that once you get started it seems harder and harder to stop once you have in your posession good, useful gear.

    I use whenever possible my Acme B1's for true acoustic/jazz hits. Can't beat one or two of those to achieve my desired URB tone. Initial testing at home with URB led to significant EQ work when trying the Bergs with my upright. Cut highs, Cut high mids (feedback threshold seemed worse with Berg- could be the hot mids?), attenuate tweeter and even boost the lows a bit just to approach the Acme sound. Conversely, the Acmes sound perfect with my URB and amps with everything dead flat.
    At least for my doubling needs, the Woods has been a savior with the two channel independent great sounding preamp.
    For on the fly switches between my URB and Six string I can't imagine a more user friendly solution- definitely worth the investment. It is a mighty step up from my Clarus as well, which I don't think I could ever part with (first loves dont ever die, do they?)

    So I am looking for mainly an electric setup with occasional doubling capability. Yeah, I don't dig the Acmes for electric. The are not loud enough for my electric needs (very low sensitivity). The tone is beautiful, flat and deep though. Just not loud, even with Mighty Walter for much of my electric needs.

    brianrost, I don't have the need to fight through a dense mix. I actually think that based on the comments shared by yourself and others so far, the Epifani cabs although heavier and larger may do the trick in filling out my sound in the mostly non-musically dense settings I play in regularly.

    Do you ever mix and match Epi and Berg? Or do you find it easier to manange tone shaping with two of the same cabs?
     
  10. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    Let me just chime in regarding the difference between the sound of the Berg's live as opposed to in a smaller room at lower levels.
    There will be a major difference. The Berg's sound really blooms with more room and more power.
    Do audition them live with a band before you make any decisions.
     
  11. pjhandlin

    pjhandlin Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2002
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Yes, well I was hoping to end up with a portable, modular setup-ideally 2X112 cabs. Maybe I won't. I guess thats the fun of it all. Thanks for the input.
     
  12. PJ
    First of all it sounds like you have plenty of gear to carry most of the time, so that is a factor, but not as important as the music I admitt. I currently use the Berg HT/EX112 combo most of the time. I play only finger style with minimal slap and pick styles. I only play electric so I'm not in the same ball park with you.

    I do have WWU on order so I might pickin' your brain soon. :D

    I have tried Epi and Berg cabs along with a couple of EA speakers, not the 112 though. I always find the Epi's nice but to polite and "open-airy" for my taste and needs. My six piece band with horns makes me really appreciate the Bergs. They are very punchy, which I need and like. Adding an Aualex Gramma really focuses the bottom and all around tone of many small cabs that sit on the floor/box stage. (worth getting one no matter what you keep) The EA are nice but too aggressive and sterile sounding to me. I should have tried EA in a live situtaion, but have not. That makes such a huge difference. So my oppinion is limited to that.

    I did find one Berg 112 usually not to be enough compared to one Epi or one EA at least in A/B test in loud busy music store... :rolleyes: I always bring two to the gigs and my band loves the deep and punchy bass.

    As many our TB Pals have stated it's a tuff call but use your ears if you're lucky enough to try all of them live. You knew that.... but it sounds to me like you already kinda sort of made your choice with the Epi. Lots of variables. Good luck to you.
     
  13. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    Another possible option for you would be an Epi T-112 + T-110, plenty of balanced, articulate good vibrations & very portable (check with tombowlus).
     
  14. vanselus

    vanselus

    Sep 20, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    None
    This is just another example of how different all our ears are - I chose Epifani over Bergantino for the opposite reason. The Berg sounded too polite and smooth - I preferred the open-airy and a little more projected sound of the Epifani.

    Hey Big, did you realize your initials are "B.S."

    just playin! :D
     
  15. bben

    bben

    Feb 28, 2002
    Santa Fe, NM
    Like brianrost, I have a pair each of Berg and Epifani 1x12s. I have spent the last year trying to decide which I like better. I have just about given up - they're both so competent.

    One Epifani can really cut the mustard pretty well, whereas one Berg HT112 doesn't quite do it for me. But the Epifani is just enough larger that it takes me a trip just for it to load in, whereas I can carry a Berg 112 in one hand an an amp or bass in the other. So it's two trips either way. As long as it's two trips, I almost always choose the Bergantino pair. Except outdoors, where I use the Epifanis, since they really do move more air in the bottom octave.

    I like the Epifani sound a little better, with the low-end bloom, but the Bergantinos do work well in boomy rooms, as Jim B. promised me they would.

    Life is tough with these dilemmas!
     
  16. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
    I have 2 Berg HT112's and a WW Ultra. At first, I wasn't real crazy about the sound I was getting, but they were small and loud. I wasn't interested in trying the Epi, EA, or Aguilar 12's for this particular rig because the Berg's were physically smaller size and easier to handle. First thing I did was get the Auralex Gramma Pad, that helped. Next thing I did was install Acosutic Bassline Refinement panels. That helped TREMENDOUSLY!! Then a few days ago I got my ThunderFunk TFB420 head and I'm LOVING IT!! The tone is fabulous!! I'll never get rid of my WW, but the ThunderFunk and Berg's are going to get a lot of use.:bassist:


    www.basslinear.com
    www.thunderfunk.com
     
  17. Van I always thought it was more like BS = Buy Stuff....at least for me, what ever.

    Get some Q-Tips Dude.
    Just playin' ;)
     
  18. vanselus

    vanselus

    Sep 20, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    None
    That's ok, with initials like TV (mine) what do you expect?

    Q-Tips?! Do you think it would help my sound to stand on a Gramma pad too?
     
  19. I do, but then again I'm not that tall...
    I should get a free one for all the endorsements.
    Wish it worked that way.

    TV.. Talk Vase...Very continental :cool:
     
  20. Yep, it would take care of the sonic cancellation you're getting when your bass hits the same frequency as your head shake. :p