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New gig, big venues, need advice

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by GrooveMongrel, Jul 30, 2004.


  1. I just got a new gig with a band called Mob Scene and we have some big gigs coming up including one venue that can seat 2000+. I've been mostly used to smaller venues and many times no soundman. I use a Sans Amp BDDI straight into my Ampeg B2 Combo and preamp out to an SWR Workingman's 10 with a 1x10 ext. cab. Now I've taken a lot of flak over the years about the "quality" of my rig and the power ratio vs. guitar stack power etc. so let me end all that right off....I have an intimate knowledge of my setup and can get whatever sound I want from it, in addition to being a "home stereo audiophile quality nut with high end equipment and a very discerning ear for quality" I have a long study history of acoustics and electronics and IMHO I can milk sounds from my rig that equal or rival rigs twice the price....soooo to the point.

    I have a gig at a large venue, with a large PA, a large crowd and an unknown soundman which I have no chance of making contact with, and little time to set up and no soundcheck! I'm considering compressors by several mfgr's and am interested in any advice on compressors or otherwise regarding the situation.

    I have mainly been involved in folk/jazz/bluegrass/improv-jam bands. Smaller venues, small crowds. The new band is 80's heavy melodic metal-originals+covers and we play loud. 2 guitars, drums, vocalist.

    Sincere thanks for any advice.
     
  2. Perhaps I should also note that my main bass is a Carvin Claro-Walnut six-string with Tomastik-Infeld jazz flatwounds.

    Thanks again
     
  3. Jack

    Jack

    Sep 6, 2003
    Newcastle, UK
    Can you get all of the sounds you want with your Sansamp?
    If yes, then just go from that to the PA.

    If not, do any of your amps have DIs?
    Can you go from those to the PA?

    About the best I can do for now.

    Jack.
     
  4. So you could give the sound man a DI out from your SWR WM 10, and then just monitor with the combo and the added 1x10 ext. cab.

    Or if you need more volume, get a bigger SWR amp, only because you already know how they sound. What's your budget?

    Perhaps a SWR WM 4004 with a 4ohm Goliath 4x10?

    How much sound/tone comes from your Ampeg B2 combo? Maybe try out a few bigger Ampeg rigs, but had far has I know, Ampegs aren't the most "home stereo audiophile" sound.
     
  5. I only mentioned the "audiophile" thing because I have a degree of understanding about good sound vs. poor sound (quality), and a well chosen high-end home audio system, I realize that my original post was a bit "egoist" sounding and does not convey my full intention. The thing I'm concerned with is not so much the power and quality of my rig but the dynamics of playing in such a big room. I don't use a compressor at this point because until now my gigs have been "quieter" meaning that I didn't have to really dig into the strings but I find (to my enjoyment) that the agressive nature of the new band has me really getting into the mood and consequently my strings which leads to some unintentional "slap" against the fretboard etc. which gives me a level of concern in regard to being amplified by a 10k+ watt house PA. Also, the inherent delay properties of a big room concern me as well, how to cope with the boom and phase cancellation of a big room, should I...can I do anything about it?
    Thanks again in advance.

    PS I do get a sound I like from the SansAmp and will most likely go direct to the board from it. I have an ART Tube MP Pro I sometimes use as well in conjunction with the SansAmp
     


  6. ... no no no, I didn't think that, it's good to explain what level of sound you're at and looking for.

    Correct me if I'm wrong anybody, but I beleive that if you plug into the SansAmp then you are getting some sort of compression, although not a lot, and if these big rooms that you are playing are semi pro or full pro then the sound man will most likely have a compressor dedicated to the bass. But saying that, I beleive the less you leave up to the sound man the better.

    Personally, my best sound (from my ears and the comments from the audience) for the band, the sound man and the audience has been bass straight into amp (flat EQ), a simdgen of on board limiter and a line out from the amp. I'm giving the sound man a clean tube DI, but it's going through the limiter to even things out for him. I've got 800 watts into 2x10 & 1x15 cabs that I use sparingly so that the sound man isn't fighting my sound onstage but gives me lots of headroom for dynamics. My guitar players are using 1x12 combos so we are relatively quiet on stage.

    My suggestion is to run your bass into the SansAmp, give the sound man that signal and get a high quality amp/speaker with enough power to give you clean unaltered tone.

    Hope that helps.
     
  7. Can I ask, if you're looking for a new rig how much did you want to spend? And what model SansAmp do you have?

    If you like your SWR WM 10, then the WM 4004 might be something to look into. 260 watts @ 8 ohms, 400 watts @ 4 ohms and the amp has an adjustable limiter on it BUT if you use the XLR DIRECT OUT on the amp, no controls on the amp will affect the sound man including the limiter.

    With the higher grade SWR amps, the XLR is switchable to Direct OUT or LINE, which means all the controls affext the XLR. DIRECT OUT = before preamp LINE OUT = after preamp.

    If you don't crank the EQ everywhich way then most sound men will take a LINE OUT. Every sound man I have worked with when I ask them to take the LINE OUT from my SWR SM 900 take a look at the EQ, and when they see that it's flat they smile and say sure.
     
  8. Well...my rig for now...SWR Workingmans 10 with 1x10 ext @ 100 watts + Ampeg B2 1x15 combo @ 200 watts (350 w/8 ohm ext. available and about to be purchased) gives me the take apart flexibility I want with the all together combined 2x10 + 2x15 @ 450 watts I need. I have considered other rigs and that is not out of the question for my future (6+ months before consideration) but at this point with my main gig and the "call ups" I get (which are mostly for smallish venues...coffee shop, bookstore, basement party and which are mostly "softer rock" jazzish folky etc...) the combo rig I have makes the most sense (I think). I have more reasons for keeping what I have I'll share if it helps....
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher

    Apr 28, 2000
    New York, NY
    +1

    Any venue that seats 2000+ probably has decent compression inline with the PA, and hopefully a soundman who knows how to use it. Use the SansAmp to compress your stage sound; let the soundguy worry about the house sound.
     
  10. I'm not sure if I fully agree with that. My suggestion was to use the SansAmp to compress your stage sound AND the sound going to the sound man. Now unless the sound man wants something else/different (my rule of thumb is to suggest things but never to argue or fight the sound man).
     
  11. Cool. Very flexible. Is it going to be hard to run 2 rigs during a show? How will you set it up?

    Please share the more reasons for keeping the rig (and what a fine rig it is).

    Kind of a side question, but how do you find the WM 10? I have the WM 12 (LOVE IT!) and was looking at the WM 10 but decided to go with the Peavey Microbass,... mainly due to money. I'd love the Microbass if it had the hook up features of the SWR (Direct out, blendable FX and tuner out).
     
  12. I wonder if this should be moved to the AMPS section? You might get more input/ideas.
     
  13. I set up as follows...Bass->SansAmp->(Effected 1/4" output from SansAmp)->Ampeg B2 input->(B2 preamp out)->SWR wkgmans 10. I set my volume first on the Ampeg and then adjust the SWR volume to my liking. It's an easy set up, and seems to compete well with the lead guitar players 4x12 and 2x12 ext. cab with Peavey George Lynch 120 watt XXX head and the rhythm guitars 100 watt Marshall head with 4x12 cab.

    I've had the SWR for over 4 years and have loved it for both its size and flexibility and it's sound. I got the 1x10 ext cab. right away and can go with the SWR combo(80w), the combo with ext. cab(100w), the Ampeg 1x15(200w), the Ampeg + 1x10(350w) or the full group for 300w/2x10/1x15. I'm planning to build a 1x15 ext. cab. for the Ampeg which will take the overall to 2x15 @ 350w and 2x10 @ 100w with a super degree of take-apart-mix-and-match-ability.
     
  14. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    I'm sure the sound guy will compress the crap out of you if he thinks he needs to. I wouldn't worry about it.