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NO EFFECTS? AM I CRAZY!!!!!

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by gruuv247, Oct 3, 2002.


  1. gruuv247

    gruuv247 Guest

    Sep 18, 2002
    Burlington, NC
    I play in a kindof jazz/latin/jam band but I don't use any effects (find they take my mind away from whats important (the pocket)) Am I just crazy? Are there particuler effects out there that will really improve my sound?:confused:
     
  2. gruuv247

    gruuv247 Guest

    Sep 18, 2002
    Burlington, NC
    :cool: I play a (or will be plaing a Q5) through a WT-800 and a SWR GoliathIII.
     
  3. gruuv247

    gruuv247 Guest

    Sep 18, 2002
    Burlington, NC
    I forgot I also play through a BBE sonic maximizer.
     
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I play Latin/Jazz and would not even consider using effects - as you say - it's about the groove, the notes and good tone.

    I went through several decades - late 70s, 80s and early 90s "playing" with effects - but now I have grown up musically, I realise that effects mostly suck your tone (especially the bass end) , add noise and generally distract you from the most important things!

    I now find I can get more usable tonal variation using my hands/fingers than any effect. OK - a nice bit of studio-quality chorus or compression introduced subtly via a mixing desk can sound good on a recording - but live - forget i!! Clean is always the way to go.
     
  5. For the most part, I don't use effects. I'll use distortion sometimes, or a little bit of Flange, and I run an EQ pedal. Thats all I have any use for, and I struggle to find uses for the flanger.
     
  6. NOFX rock!

    and i dont use any effects. I dont think its a necessity and i dont know you well enough to tell your crazy but i dont consider not using effects crazy.

    so yeh
     
  7. Showdown

    Showdown Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2002
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    The only effect I use is a little compression.
     
  8. Oysterman

    Oysterman

    Mar 30, 2000
    Sweden
    That is an effect.
     
  9. that I play through a Line6 Pod Pro all the time I guess you could say that I am into effects. Our band plays everything from oldies to current pop so I have to cover a lot of basses (no pun intended) Effects are great if used sparingly. I use compression just about all the time. It makes it a lot easier on the sound man and the the compressor on the Line6 is outstanding. I use chorus with my Fretless on a few slow songs. It gives it that "New York Minute sound."
    I use an effect called "Silver Panel" on the Motown Stuff, it simulates a Fender Bassman with 2-15 JBLs'. Set the SR5 on single coil, palm mute the strings and you are there. But the next song might be some sort of slap funk thing. I then switch to "Adam and Eve" which simulates an Eden rig, set the SR5 to Parallel and I get a real good slap tone with compression. What I'm saying is that effects can make you sound better and better support the music if you use them correctly. jmho
     
  10. Showdown

    Showdown Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2002
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    I play through a Bass POD also, but I don't consider the amp models to be effects. I use a little compression, but no other effects. The "silver panel" you mention is an amp modeller, not an effect. It is the same as using a real Fender Bassman. You wouldn't plug straight into a Bassman and say you were using effects would you? Same goes for the "Adam and Eve". Amp modellers are different from effects. By effects, he was refering to chorus, flanger, mu-tron, phase shifter, etc.
     
  11. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
    Hey great work everybody! You've all realized that to use an effect(s) or not is your choice, and not a big deal at all! I'm so impressed I'm damn near speechless.
     
  12. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Nah - Effects Suck (all the tone and bottom end from your sound) ! They're all just toys for big boys!! :D
     
  13. Steve Lawson

    Steve Lawson Solo Bass Exploration! Supporting Member

    Apr 21, 2000
    Birmingham, UK
    ...but the most important thing is 'sound' and any processing you do is part of that...

    The way that 'most' bassists seem to think about effects will eventually lead them to where you are, Bruce. However, if you see the effect/entire signal chain even, as part of your instrument, then you 'play the effect' - it's not about whether or not latin jazz works with a chorus pedal, it's about playing the music with your sound. If 'your sound' is always supposedly unprocessed (though unless you play completely acoustically, everything is processing your sound - your pickups, electronics, the preamp in your amp, the porting on your speaker enclosure etc...) then that's your sound.

    It's not a matter of what effects sound good for latin jazz - it's about your sound, your voice and what you bring to the music.

    The realisation that you've come to Bruce is not part of 'growing up' at all, rather it's about focus - you've found that your experiments with effects, and relationship with processed bass sound didn't prove fruitful, but to make a generalisation about effects sucking tone doesn't follow at all...

    I play in a lot of situations where I would be COMPLETELY lost without my rack - like playing without an amp. it just wouldn't work. I'm as reliant on my rack for a lot of my sounds as I am on the bass. Any notion that that makes me a 'slave' to it, or that I'm using it as a crutch is obviously bollocks, as it's like saying 'what, you need strings on your bass? can't you get a good sound without them?' - drawing boundaries round music doesn't help. Refining your own vision stops you from chasing stuff that isn't going to work for you, but it's always good to revisit old ground and see if you really have grown up...

    cheers

    steve
    www.steve-lawson.co.uk
     
  14. I would agree that Amp modellers are different from your garden variety stomp box. Amp modellers change your sound in such a way as to simulate different amp/cab combinations than what you are playing through. It can make my Alembic X-1/EV Dinacord/Hartke 4.5 sound like a Fender bassman/2-15s' or something like that. Don't forget that the modeled signal sent to the board simulates a microphone on the cabinet and not a direct line out ( unless you want it ) Are Amp models effects? That might be a good question for a pole.:confused:
     
  15. Steve Lawson

    Steve Lawson Solo Bass Exploration! Supporting Member

    Apr 21, 2000
    Birmingham, UK
    no it can't, it can make it sound like a 2x15 being played through 4x10s, but you can't make 4x10s sound like a 2x15. For recording, it works well - you've got the sound of a mic'd amp in the next room going to tape. but the sound of an amp mic'd in the next room being played through a 4x10 in this room has never been a desirable set up!! :)

    It might be that you like the end result, and it sounds more 'old school', but 4x10s are only ever going to shift air in the way that 4x10s shift air, not like 2x15s...

    They are all effects, and all doing the same things - a chorus pedal is about simulating two instruments playing the same thing, one slightly detuned. A reverb is about creating space (in much the same way as the mic modeller in a POD), delays are about reflection, or multiple instruments, distortion is simulated overload...

    your amp is an effect, the EQ on your bass is an effect, even the capacitance in your cables has some effect. The difference is a matter of degrees and perception, not science... ;)

    the sound that comes out of your amp is shaped by every single thing in your signal chain. Add more and you just get a diffent sound, not a whole new process...

    cheers

    Steve
    www.steve-lawson.co.uk
     
  16. you said it best...
     
  17. Steve Lawson

    Steve Lawson Solo Bass Exploration! Supporting Member

    Apr 21, 2000
    Birmingham, UK
    ImNotGeddyLee

    thanks

    cheers

    ILookLikeGeddyLee

    :D
     
  18. Originally posted by Steve Lawson

    " the sound of an amp mic'd in the next room being played through a 4x10 in this room has never been a desirable set up!! :) "

    I would have to agree with that one. Line6 Pod Pro when set to LIVE sends a mic'd signal to the XLR and a modeled signal without Mic'd effect to the 1/4" model out. The 1/4" out is what most people send to their amp. So what you get is a particular amp/cab sound coming through your amp and a mic'd amp sound being sent to the board.
     
  19. Steve Lawson

    Steve Lawson Solo Bass Exploration! Supporting Member

    Apr 21, 2000
    Birmingham, UK
    So what is the modelled sound of a cab, if it doesn't have a mic on it? what are they modelling? I'm guessing that the mic modelling is basically a delay/EQ thing, just to simulate some sort of off axis mic placement thing, but you're still trying to get the sound of one cab, defined by it's dimensions not it's electronics, through another cab that is still a slave to it's own size, shape and cone area.

    I'm not saying that it can't sound good, just that it doesn't do what it says on the box. A Hartke 4x10 with aluminium cones is NEVER going to sound properly like a vintage 2x15. You might like the effect of trying it - and after all, some of the best ideas in music came about through people trying to put 2 and 2 together and making 5 - but 'modelling' is not what's going on there, in any 'real' sense.

    Direct recording is a whole other issue...

    :)

    Steve
    www.steve-lawson.co.uk (new album out end of October, order it now!)
     
  20. I agree, the closest you can do to getting proper simulation is to use a full range PA type speaker. I've messed around with a 3 way powered Mackie and it sounded real convincing. What you get is a simulated sound on stage of whatever you want. Now is it gonna sound the same as the original in the back of the room? Probably not. But if you remember, this post was in response to a statement saying that modellers were not effects. As to how true these models are to the original, I can't really say. You would have to set up 2 rigs and compair them. And like I think somebody may have said in this thread somewhere, "It really comes down to finding your sound. If the amp modeller gives it to you then great."
    JMHO