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Noise with Fender Marcus MIller (Sadowsky)

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by dafonk, Apr 20, 2006.


  1. dafonk

    dafonk

    Apr 20, 2006
    Hello everybody,

    I have some problems with my Fender MArcus Miller bass.
    I had installed a Sadowky preamp instead of the stock preamp.
    I've shielded all the cavaties of the bass.
    Here is a soundclip : I play first and then put the hand on the plate :

    http://perso.club-internet.fr/vmagdalena/parasites.mp3

    Do you know how can I get rid of this noise ?

    Thank you
     
  2. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    I have a set of MM J's and a Sad pre/di. That clip sound's more like termites than parasites. Any sawdust around the bass :D

    Sorry couldn't resist. That sounds electronic to me. I'd Call Roger and send him that clip for sure. Other's may know, I don't, but I'm guessing Roger will either know or at least be interested in hearing about it.
     
  3. DavidRavenMoon

    DavidRavenMoon Banned

    Oct 20, 2004
    That sounds like a bad ground... did you ground all the shielding? Which plate are you touching that makes that noise?
     
  4. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    Nothing personal David but does that sound like a bad ground to anybody else?

    I'm probably the bad ground king with all my temporary setups and I've never heard anything like that in my recall. My bad grounds usually sound like hum not something electronic.
     
  5. DavidRavenMoon

    DavidRavenMoon Banned

    Oct 20, 2004
    If the foil shielding is not grounded (or connected to a hot wire), you will get noise from moving your hand near it. That was the type of bad grounding I was talking about, not the kind that results from having a ground wire to your jack broken!

    This could also be high frequency feedback from having input and output wires too close together and either unshielded, or with improper grounding of the shield.

    But the fact that it starts when he "touches the plate" makes me think that something is not grounded that should be. Either way he's picking up some type of noise from moving his hand near it.

    Something is miswired for sure.
     
  6. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE

    Yeh I was going to edit but you beat me to it. The sound was so foriegn it threw me off and got me to thinking about external interference, whatever.

    But touching components should decrease noise if anything and if it increases noise is an indication of a poor ground. And if that sounds is any indication, maybe only partial malfunction.

    Ground issues are no fun cause could be anywhere. That in combination with full shielding and potential hot leaks can make for some grief in trouble-shooting.
     
  7. DavidRavenMoon

    DavidRavenMoon Banned

    Oct 20, 2004
    If the component is anything that carries signal, then touching it will make more noise. To try it for yourself... unplug your cable from your amp, and touch the tip while not touching the ground. What do you hear?

    Or touch one of the hot leads inside the instrument.

    If there is shielding that is not grounded, it will act like an antenna for noise, and the proximity of your hand to that antenna will increase the noise.

    Likewise if a part should be grounded, like the metal back plate to a pickup, but is instead shorted to hot, it will make the some noise as touching your plug. If you don't make direct contact, and it's under the pickguard or whatever, you will still have an increase of noise.

    Now if something *is* grounded, like your strings, and you don't have a good ground at the amp, then touching the strings usually reduces the noise. If a signal wire is not shielded, like an input to a preamp, that can also make noise if you get close to it.

    It can be so many things...

    I say double and triple check all the wiring. :)
     
  8. dafonk

    dafonk

    Apr 20, 2006
    Thank you for your answers, I touch the pickguard just below the strings. In the soundclips I'm not just putting my hand, I slide it on the pickguard.
    By the way, I already sent an email to Roger Sadowsky but since this noise appaers also when the preamp is bypassed he told me it sounded like a ground pb.
     
  9. dafonk

    dafonk

    Apr 20, 2006
    I checked all the ground in the electronic and everything seems fine :meh: I shielded all the cavities maybe I can send some pictures if that can help ?
     
  10. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    ya know, don't know how old the bass is or how applicable but I recall a thread about some Fenders having issues with the sheilding cracking on the back of the pickguard resulting in noise issues. Since you mentioned running your finger across the pickguard (which probably explains that wierd variability to the sound), you might try throwing a new layer of the shielding over the existing one.

    Strikes me as something that may be freak like that.
     
  11. dafonk

    dafonk

    Apr 20, 2006
    I'll try that, my shielding is done with aluminium tape, maybe a shielding with copper tape would be better.
     
  12. DavidRavenMoon

    DavidRavenMoon Banned

    Oct 20, 2004
    Alumin(i)um makes a better shield than copper, but it's almost impossible to solder to.

    Usually in the case of Fenders, the aluminum foil under the pick guard is grounded via the potentiometers. Just make sure the shielding you have added is grounded. One easy way to do this with aluminum foil is to solder a ground wire to the back of a pot, and then strip the other and and wrap some of the foil shielding around that.

    I used to use aluminum flashing for shielding.
     
  13. Is there a ground wire connected to your shielded cavity(on the tape). there should be one otherwise the noise might be incresed instead of decreased.

    if there's none what you could do since you'll have a hard time soldering on aluminium is crimping a lug on the end of the wire coming to the tape and screw it in the wood throug the shield tape in a manner that the metal ring at the end of the lug is touching the shield.the other end of that wire should be soldered on the back of a pot or anywhere where there's a ground.

    Sorry if you already amde that :smug:
     
  14. dafonk

    dafonk

    Apr 20, 2006
    The shielding is not ground, I'll do that.
    Thank you
     
  15. DavidRavenMoon

    DavidRavenMoon Banned

    Oct 20, 2004
    Ta daa! Read back to my first post (#3).

    Just as I suspected! :)
     
  16. dafonk

    dafonk

    Apr 20, 2006
    Replacing pickups with DELANO humcancelling solved the problem but I went back to the wintage FENDER for a try and guess what still the same problem.

    Anyone ?

    Maybe using shield cable for the preamp wiring ?

    Shielding the FENDER pickup cables ?
     
  17. DavidRavenMoon

    DavidRavenMoon Banned

    Oct 20, 2004
    Guess it's the pickups. Fender doesn't ground their magnets either, which can lead to noise.

    Why did you go back to the Fenders?
     
  18. dafonk

    dafonk

    Apr 20, 2006
    I went back to Fender because the ouput level of the DELANO are too much for me and the sound is too modern.
     
  19. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    Technically the Millers should be quiet if both volumes are maxed as they're humcanceling to my knowledge.

    A couple pups that are HB's but similar to the Miller's tonewise are DM Model J's (noticeably darker, thicker) and SD Classic Stacks (pretty close but a bit thinner and not as responsive). Of all the pups I've had, if I had to just use one, it would be the Millers. Over time it's evolved into the pup I use to judge all others.
     
  20. dafonk

    dafonk

    Apr 20, 2006
    The pickups are quiet it's just a problem with electro-static noise when by hand touch the pickguard.
     

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