Not enough low bass on AX8

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Antoan, Sep 26, 2019.


  1. Antoan

    Antoan

    Apr 8, 2015
    Hi guys, I need a bit of advice:

    Iam using Warwick Streamer LX5 and Fractal AX8. I was recording with this setup and the mixing guy said, that there is not enough low bass on that tone, so he needs to mix it with DI. He is talking about 50hz and below specifically.

    So I compare the DI and AX8 tone and he was right, 50hz was nearly tripled on DI in comparsion to AX8. So I tried to change it and here is the problem.

    First, I have two signal paths. One is going to HPF with 400hz+ and after it there is BK7 and Mesa head, other is going to LPF 0-400 and to tape distortion, then both directly to cab. First I tried to rise level on 0-400hz path by lowering output of an amp (amp is only on 400+ signal) and it was ok, but I couldn't get the bass to DI level and also the sound was getting worse. Then I tried to raise the 0-400hz by boosting the filter and even on 12db boost it wasn't as DI. So I did it as dummy and added GEQ before cab with +12boost on 32 and 62hz and this seems to be ok.

    What should I do? Maybe the compressor is the thing. I got attack and relase set very low and compressor filter is on 60hz (below that it is not compressed), but I don't know.

    Any help?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Warpeg

    Warpeg

    Jun 20, 2005
    Ohio
    Your setup seems needlessly complex. Have you tried just doing away with the bi-amping setup and go full range + DI?
     
    basscooker and JeezyMcNuggles like this.
  3. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    Why is using the DI for low frequencies a concern? Its quite possible that a good live rig won't be delivering too much below 50hz, because that's where the mud is.
     
  4. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    It's possible that the distortion algorithm on the AX-8 includes a HPF as part of the distortion model.
     
  5. GK Breivik

    GK Breivik

    Apr 23, 2013
    Endorsing Artist: Spector Basses
    Try bypassing all blocks on the AX8, and see where that gets you. Then add one at a time to figure out which one cuts your lows. If the Fractal still lacks low bass, something must be wrong.
     
    Gearhead17, abarson and dkelley like this.
  6. JeezyMcNuggles

    JeezyMcNuggles Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2018
    Santa Maria, CA
    I suck, but nobody really notices
    You're filtering your sound. You're also using a distortion effect. That's why your low end is lacking. If I was in your position, I would simply use a distortion pedal that has a blend option, and run it into my amp. I'd X out all of those other things in my set up.
     
  7. Lydvest

    Lydvest

    May 3, 2020
    Hi, Antoan.
    Did you solve your problem with the low end?

    I’m also splitting the signal in a high and low side and there is no problem with that. If you use the filter blocks to divide the frequency areas, in 2nd order mode, just make sure you flip the polarity of the high side (or low, but I prefer flipping the highs). In 4th order mode there is no need to flip 180.

    Then you use the Tape Dist block on the lows. No problem there either. By default it’s low cut filter starts at 20Hz, which is as low as it goes, so that will take away no low end that you can really hear.
    Also the harmonics of Tape Dist is so subtle that you need to krank it all the way up, and even boost with a block in front to make it ‘loose low end’.
    But check if you could have raised the Low Cut some.. that could be a reason.

    The second thing I can think of is the cab you are using ..if you mean that you route both the low and high side into a cab block within the AX8?
    Any cab will steal some low low end. It may sound as the cab is adding low end but that will be because it has a mid scoop and it all sounds ‘bigger’. But the low end you were discussing in the recording session is typically cut away to some degree in a cab. That is why recording engineers most often wants to record a clean DI signal in addition to an amp/cab.
    So you could try changing the cab. Try the different 15 inch ones and see who gives you the lowest lows.
    Also you can try what I do, only apply a cab to the high side ..and then, after, mix the high and low side together. If you think the cab does not affect the signal enough you might try moving the divide (crossover) filters down a bit, to around 200Hz.
    If you still want the cab affecting both highs and lows, check the Low Cut filter in the cab block, there are cut filters there also.

    If none of this helps, send me a pic of your setup and I’ll see if I can help that way.

    Best of luck
     
  8. BoogieZK

    BoogieZK

    Sep 28, 2008
    Toulouse, France
    Follow what Agedhorse is saying.

    Try not using any kind of distortion circuit in the low channel.
    My exprience is clean low ends with overdriven mids or highs.
     
  9. Lydvest

    Lydvest

    May 3, 2020
    Btw.. even the Filter block (if that is what you're using to divide the higs and lows) has Low Cut and High Cut in addition to the main filter you want to use in it. Check if the Low Cut is raised. It should be at 20Hz by default.
     
  10. Antoan

    Antoan

    Apr 8, 2015
    Dear all,

    Thank you for your replies. At first I just boosted the bass with GEQ and that worked. However after closer look, it were the filters as Lydvest suggested. Problem was not in filter cut, but filter eq. My plan to divide the frequencies and leave a mid gap failed, because there was not enough room for eq curve and although it was not clearly visible, this affected the bass in 80-150 range. I switched from divided frequencies to one mid cut - one mid boost and tailor the high end just with cab block and this works well for me. Thank you everybody
     
    Gearhead17 likes this.
  11. Antoan

    Antoan

    Apr 8, 2015
    Also as some people were asking.. filter split is used here to distort only higher frequencies. The distortion itself has a lpf/hpf, but with filters it can be tailored more. But it causes other problems as you may see
     

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