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Old UK punk musings

Discussion in 'Recordings [BG]' started by parrott, Apr 3, 2003.


  1. I've just listened to the Clash's debut LP, I'm now listening to the Buzzcocks debut, yesterday I listened to some Damned, some Undertones, some Clash and some Magazine, (all on vinyl, most of it original, and because i've had to do an essay on it).


    Why does some of it, the Clash's debut especially, sound so dated, while some of it - like the Buzzcocks debut - still sound fresh today?

    The production? The songwriting? The basic sound of it?

    :confused:
     
  2. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    And why is it that most 60s rock/pop music sounds very dated, but The Beatles don't? Compare "Abbey Road" with most other rock/pop from 1969.
     
  3. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Yeah it is the production - the Buzzcocks and Magazine had great producers working with them, but the Clash first album is noted for its terrible production - they sounded much better live - I saw them several times in 1977-79 and they had huge energy, which just doesn't make it onto that record! :(

    So early Buzzcocks was produced by Martin Rushent who became a noted "big-name" producer" and Magazine woked with John Leckie and Martin Hannet, who was truly inspired producer and worked on Joy Division's Closer.
     
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I'm not sure about that - Hendrix's stuff from '69 sounds better than a lot of contemporary rock and I have loads of albums from '69 that sound great now - of course there was a lot of crap in the charts, but I prefer a load of albums from '69 to anything by the Beatles, who I was heartily sick of, by then! :meh:
     
  5. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Sick of The Beatles?!? Goodness gracious...

    Anyway, obviously I'm not saying that everything else from that period sounds dated - but I have heard a lot of stuff on the radio from then, and it sounds mostly pretty dated. But I'm thinking of (mainly British?) Rock&Pop here - not Motown and the like.
     
  6. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    "In the Court of the Crimson King" was recorded in 1969 and sounds astonishing by comparison as well as Soft Machine albums - and Led Zeppelin I and II !! Yes released their first albums and there are loads of classic US releases from this year - The Band, Crosby Stills and Nash, The Doors etc etc.

    The Doors still have an indefinable sound or atmosphere that hasn't really been touched since.

    To me it was the Beatles who sounded "dated" by then and of a previous era - that was what my Mum and Dad liked - so Led Zeppelin, Soft Machine King Crimson and maybe "heavy" bands like Deep Purple, Sabbath etc. were the albums that sounded new an exciting.

    Of course - by 1976, those bands were flagging and it was punk that sounded new and exciting! ;)


    Which is where we came in.............
     
  7. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    How can you say "Abbey Road" sounds dated...
     
  8. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Well, I like some of the tracks now, but by then the Beatles were tragically "unhip" and things like "Octopus's Garden" ....err yeah right mate, looking for a career in kiddie's programmes are we? :meh:

    Songs like Mean Mr. Mustard and Maxwell just sound like twee kiddy tunes again - OK there is some sardonic humour going on - but why do I want to listen to jokes more than once?

    So by that time hard rock a la Led Zep was the atmosphere of the time and the Beatles just sound too happy and twee by comparison - an anachronism and no suprise that they were splitting - so they wouldn't have fitted on the Woodstock bill......
     
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  10. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Oooeer - is that an insult...:meh:

    The clubs I went to with my friends were playing heavy rock and the places to pick up girls were playing Motown/Philly soul-type stuff - nobody was listening to the Beatles in 69/70 !
     
  11. Just teasing, that's all. I'm in a particularly playful mood today.

    Hindsight's 20/20. I think the genius of Abbey Road was its elevation of the utterly banal (the aforementioned "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" and "Octopus' Garden") to the sublime. I think a lot of the excesses of the Prog movement (see: Yes, Genesis, Kansas) stem from the fact that these bands were trying to do the same thing, but without the overarching sense of irony that just barely kept the Beatles from being completely ridiculous.

    I can see how a teenaged male at the time would have wanted to reject it out of hand.
     
  12. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I saw Genesis live in 1973 and I thought Peter Gabriel's sense of humour and irony was far and away superior to anything that McCartney was doing by then!! :rolleyes: "C Moon", "Hi Hi Hi" - errr.... no thanks!! ;)
     
  13. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Well Abbey Road still sold in huge quantities, no? Anyway, who cares who was listening to it?

    Oh, and let's not tarnish the genius of The Beatles by associating them with McCartney's solo work :D
     
  14. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Well - "Boney M" sold in huge quantities in the 70s and today, yet another crap version of "Spirit in the Sky " is biggest-selling single of the year - doesn't stop either being crap though!! :rolleyes:
     
  15. punkfunkfreak

    punkfunkfreak

    Dec 16, 2001
    sledgehammer!......dat daaaaaaaaaaah........


    in response to original question, the answer IMHO is that its not the music that seems so modern, its the us that feel so retro recently.
     
  16. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Apart from what I said about producers, I think you have to accept that punk in the UK was a live phenomenon and also a reaction against albums - so a return to 3 minute singles and a DIY / anybody can do it, ethic.

    So the Clash didn't care about albums and were more concerned about turning out for big Rock against Racism or Anti-Poll Tax demos and playing with energy - the Damned were all about a chaotic live experience - Magazine were later and more "considered" - but early punk was about anarchy, protest and live music every night!!
     
  17. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Well sure, but what you said is "nobody was listening to the Beatles in 69/70". I'm thinking that a lot of people were listening to The Beatles in 69/70 - seeing as they were still selling lots and lots of copies.
     
  18. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Well, of course I meant - nobody I knew was listening to the Beatles then, as I said - apart from my parents - but I thought that people would take that as read!! :rolleyes:
     
  19. oh, here we go again. can we expect the usual "So...now I only listen to jazz! ;) " comment shortly?
    :rolleyes:

    The Clash's "london calling" album had much better production.
    I'd put it down to growing experience and budget available for a producer/recording.

    also a lot of heavy metal from the NWOBHM era sounds dated due to poor production- especially for the time circa. 1980-82 -
    eg. Diamond Head and the other bands Metallica was heavily influenced by and later covered.

    only a select few bands like Iron Maiden got to work with decent producers (Martin Birch on Killers onwards), also Mutt Lange with Def Leppard.
    even Metallica's early albums Kill 'em all and ride the lightning had not particularly good production.
     
  20. Nicklas

    Nicklas

    Mar 15, 2003
    I have heard Abbey Road and i Really like the album. There is a big diffrent between Let it be album and Abbey road. I wonder how many groups can make so diffrent albums in one year???

    But there are many other great artist who have done some very nice albums but maybe came in the shadow of the beatles. Just listen to the whos Tommy which is a great album.