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OMG how many more mind changes can i make?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Muttluk, Nov 14, 2000.


  1. Ok, i dont know if you all remember, but i decided to go with an all eden rig, figured it would be the best outcome. So... i decdied to get the WT-400 head, and 4x10xlt cab. I decided to go with the 8 ohms cab just so if i wanted to add another cab later on i could.

    but...

    me being me, i frequently check and check again for my plans for errors, some might find this as a good thing, i see it as a curse. I was thinking, and realized that i wouldnt be giving the cab much of the power it could handle (it can handle 700 watts, and i'd be feeding it less then 400) so i thought maybe i should get the 4ohms model, so i'd be feeding it all 400 watts. but then i thought, what if i wanted to add another cab? then i couldnt. soo, i looked into the WT-500 where its a sterio power amp, so i could get the 500 at 4 ohms mono, but if i wanted to add another cab, i could still do that, and just feed it 250w per side.

    what should i do?
     
  2. Damian

    Damian

    Jul 4, 2000
    Hey Muttluk,

    I was in the same kind of situation. I decided (and already ordered) to get WT-400 and an 8ohm D-210XLT.

    Within the next few weeks or so, I'll be getting another cab (D-410XLT or D-115XL) and will be running both bridged at 4ohm at 400W. Munji is running the same confuguration with WT-300 and says it works fine ( Munji, anything else we should know ? ).

    Basicaly, I got 210XLT and want to get 410XLT because I'm sure someday I'll want to upgrade the amp section to more powerful so I won't have to upgrade the cabs along with the amp. That's what I've decided and hope this helps you make your decision.

    [Edited by Damian on 11-14-2000 at 09:22 PM]
     
  3. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Muttluk -

    I'd say you ought to stop the mental mastication.


    Damian -

    You ought to go ahead and try that D-115XL under your 210. I tried it a little while back, and it's like a Triad on steroids. VERY nice sound.
     
  4. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    But seriously, Muttluk, if you're going to up the amp, go to the WT-600 rather than the WT-500. The 600 has a crossover and maybe a couple more bells and whistles.
     
  5. hm... crossover... thats a new term on me... whats it mean? like is that like bi-amping where you got different freq. to different sides? or am i just flat out confused.
     
  6. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    You got it. Different freqs to each side.
     
  7. ok, bassnw just wrote me back, and now i'm really crossed as to what to get. i dont know why but now suddenly i have the urge to get the WT-800. its $400 more then with the wt-400 and d410xlt, but its 400 more watts. also, its like you all know sterio power amp, and a lot of watts, so i'd never not have enough watts. question about the wt-800... can you drive it mono? and how many watts will be givin to the cab? cause if i get the wt-800 at 4ohms? and what about at 8?
     
  8. Damian

    Damian

    Jul 4, 2000
    Mattluk,

    You can't run WT-800 bridged mono at 4OHMS, only at 8ohms and it's gonna be 800W if I'm not mistaken. If I had the money for WT-800 I would be Navigator and the preamp - same money MORE WATTS and you can run it bridged at 4ohm or even 2ohms If you power amp can handle that.

     
  9. hm...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I'm soo lost now as to what i want to do. i might just stick with the wt-400, but i considerd the 600 because that is bi-ampable and then i could run it with two 4 ohms cabs. so i wrote to bassnw, and they said that the wt-800 was only $100 more, and you get 200 more watts. so i thought maybe i should go with the 800. i'm soo lost now. question to you guys with the wt-300 and/or the wt-400... how loud is it? can you give me an example what you play with (other band memebers), and what size venues, and how hard you push the amp. also... would it be wise to get the 4ohms cab (4x10xlt) or go with the 8ohms (410xlt) and add either a 1x15xlt or 2x10xlt later on?
     
  10. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Shoot-fire, and Judas H. Priest! If you have the jing to spring for the WT-800, just go ahead and buy my dream rig. You'll never really want or need anything else. Then you can run 400 watts to each of two 4-ohm cabs, and cross 'em over if you want. Cripe. I NEED a WT-800 now.
     
  11. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    My WT-300 can play loud enough through six 10's to cause my ears to just fold up and stay plugged for a week. Certainly too loud for my bandmates.
     
  12. mark

    mark

    Apr 7, 2000
    Canada
    Just by the WT-800...that way you can do whatever the hell you want cab wise for the rest of your days.
     
  13. Angus

    Angus Supporting Member

    Apr 16, 2000
    Palo Alto, CA
    Bag End! Cheaper, AND sounds better! Louder too! Much, much better than any Eden ever will be.
     
  14. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    I went through this over a decade ago. I looked at what the MAJORITY of my gigs would require (answer: one cabinet). I thus punted on stereo heads vs. a mono head.

    Look at the math:

    The 400 watt head delivers 400 watts into 4 ohms, probably (not spec'd) about 250 watts into 8 ohms. The 500 watter yields 250 watts into two 4 ohm cabs. So the amount of power into one cab is going to be about the same either way (one 8 ohm driven by the 400 vs. one 4 ohm driven by the 500). When driving two 4 ohm cabs, you get only a slight power increase with the 500. So the 500 head costs $200 more but with a single 4 ohm cab is no louder than the 400 with one 8 ohm cab!!!

    I looked at this when I was buying and said the heck with it, bought a mono amp and have been totally satisfied.





     
  15. Damian

    Damian

    Jul 4, 2000
    MegaAngus,

    I'm glad that you are happy with you rig but AGAIN, it may sound BETTER for YOU. Seems like Mattluk has already made up his mind as far as the brand goes, except what model to get. In addition I don't think there is a problem with choosing the right cabinet, more which amp to get in order to get the optimal power along with the right cabs. No offense here, but you just walk from thread to thread and yell: get a BAG END, get a BAG END. Take it easy will ya ? :):)
    I think we just had a simillar thread "Why do people play with SWr" - this guy thinks there is no better amps and cabs than Ampeg. I'm totally sold on Eden ( maybe from what I've heard Demeter or Aguilar may work for me too, but I've not had a chance to actually try one out ), but again I think the statement "Much, much better than any Eden ever will be" is more your own personal opinion and just messes the whole idea of the whole thread here.

    Anyway, Briandrost,
    I've thought about the same thing over and over for a long time and ended up with the same decision. :)
     
  16. Skip

    Skip

    Mar 22, 2000
    Bronxville, NY
    A couple of (semi-)technical points. ;)

    While idealy the wattage doubles when you halve the resistance in ohms, that's not always the case and it may be very close to the 400 watts claimed for 4 ohms. I assume that the amp in the WT-400 is solid state and only the pre amp is tubed. Tube amps always push the same wattage regardless of the ohm load because of their construction.

    Second is that a 4 ohm cab usually sounds louder than a 8 ohm cab all else being equal. I don't know why, I'm not an EE, but I do know that it has been a reason given for why high-end speakers have such punishing loads (It's not unusual in the high end music reproduction market to see 2 Ohm loads that require serious amplification to drive them.)

    Finally a non-technical point. I assume you are buying by mail-order from your posts. First see what the return policy is. Assuming it's not cost prohibitive, order the cheaper one and audition it in as demanding a situation as you expect to play in. If its loud enough, be happy. :) If not send it back and get the bigger amp. Ideally, if you've got the room on your credit card, buy both with the understanding that you will send back the one you don't want. If they charge any fees other than making you pay for shipping it back to them, ask them to waive the fees. They probably will, after all you are not asking to compare 15 watt practice amps here. Good luck either way. :cool:
     
  17. Muttluk,

    Your original plan seemed to be pretty well thought out. I'd stick with it. I just purchased a WT300 and I'm currently running it through a single Trace Elliot 2x10 8 ohm cab (a second TE cab is on layaway as we speak) and it's still pretty damn loud! The WT400 should have plenty of power for you while giving you a good tone. I remember back in the 80's and early 90's having a massive rig with tons of watts, rack effects, bi-amped etc. Sometimes setting up my big rig became an issue since many times the stage in a club is small. Eventually I realized that I should go with the simplest rig that would do the job and fit in my car! Get the WT400 and the D410XLT in the 4 ohm version. 2 trips max to the car and you are done! You can always purchase a separate power amp and run a line out of the WT-400 to the amp to run more cabs if you (ever) need more power.

     
  18. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    Unfortunately I AM an EE and that's not really true. If you go to any speaker maker and ask for a 4 or 8 ohm version of the same speaker, with the same wattage into them they will deliver the same volume.

    Otherwise we would have invented an energy generator!!! The ACOUSTICAL power of the speaker is converted from the ELECTRICAL power of the amplifier. With the same power in, the power out has to be the same (minus of course the conversion of some of the power to heat).

     
  19. Ok thank you all soo very much... i am pretty sure i want the WT-400 and 4x10xlt (8ohms) like i had orginaly planed. i am going to try them both out side by side, one wiht the 4ohms cab, and one with the 8ohms cab.
     
  20. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Y'know, Muttluk, as disappointed as I am that you apparently are not going to get the WT-800, I think you will be thrilled with your original choice. It'll be plenty loud but, more importantly, will give you monster tone. The EQ section of the Eden amps set them apart from most others. Just don't overdo it ... a little EQ goes a long way on Eden.

    That said, you've just GOT to stop all that mental mastication. It's driving you crazy, but worse, it's driving ME crazy.