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one or two cabs? need help please!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by subkulture, Aug 1, 2002.


  1. i currently own an eden wt-800, an eden 410xlt 8ohm cab, and a warwick bass. can someone say growl?:D anyways, here's the deal. i'm running the amp bridged so the cab is getting 800watts. you would think this is enough, but in the garage we practice in, i can barely hear the bass over the guitar and drums. if i turn the amp up anymore it starts to clip. i am considering adding another 410xlt cab. this would help move more air. however, as far as watts is concerned, bi-amped each cab would only get 240 watts @ 8ohms for a combined total of 480watts. this is much less than the 800watts i am currently pumping out, though i would have a total of 8 speakers. but what is more important for loudness, watts or air movement? would using a second cab help me or hurt me? i would really appreciate any help with this matter. thanks!!

    SeRg
     
  2. Hey read the setup guidelines before posting!!

    This is moved.

    Goodbye.

    Merls
     
  3. sorry 'bout that merlin!!:D
     
  4. I could be wrong but, the WT-800 bridged into an 8 ohm cab isnt 800 watts, isnt that the 4ohm load? Maybe you're only getting 400 watts from the head. I dunno.

    I use a Navigator and QSC poweramp into an Eden 1x15 and 2x10, and I have no problems with volume over two guitars and drums. I get 360 watts per channel with my current setup. Plenty of headroom too.

    BTW, if you DID get another 8ohm 410, you can get 800 watts - 2 8 ohm cabs = 4 ohm load in bridge mode, not stereo of course.

    Check your gain and EQ settings as has been suggested.
     
  5. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    If you're in a band loud enough to drown out a wt-800+XLT, and you're playing in a garage, I strongly recommend that you wear earplugs. Aside from the fact that you won't have to buy a hearing aid at age 35, they block out the treble and make bass easier to notice. Try other things, like elevating the cab (this will uncouple it from the ground, which will take away some low end, but that's inconsequential during practice and it might even reduce complaints from the neighbors.) Or just stand in a different place (standing right in front of the cab may not be the best idea if you want to hear it.)
     
  6. Golem II, I usually stand in front of my cab, about 8 feet away. But I did notice at our last practice that standing to the side definitely made a difference. I can usually feel the bass, but not really hear it. But standing at the side made a big difference.

    Josh Walsh, I really wish our drummer would play softer but he just gets into it. He's an amazing drummer and plays with a lot of heart, but he is loud. I swear, he breaks his sticks at almost every practice from his intense playing. But regarding my amp's setup, I have the EQ set almost flat. The gain is turned up about 40-45% and the main volume about 55-60%. The enhance is only up about 25%. And like I said, anything more and the clip lights start coming on. I purchased my head used, it's a 98 model. It looks like it's been to hell and back. I'm wondering if my lack of volume is due to an old tube or something like that. How often do you have to replace tubes, and what would be the symptoms?

    DiN, are you saying I can hook up the two cabs bridged? The amp only has one banana plug for bi-amp mode. How would I do that? I don't think it's possible.
     
  7. Run from the amp to one cab, then from that cab to the second cab, daisy chain style.

    edit: but someone stated the amp will only bridge at 8ohms, so I guess this isnt the solution.
     
  8. i knew you could do that with swr cabs, because one plug said input and the other said output. but on the eden cab, it just says input between both plugs. can i use either or as an input and output?
     
  9. DaveB

    DaveB

    Mar 29, 2000
    Toronto Ontario
    You must play in a seriously loud band.My band is not short on volume in small,medium and large size gigs (bass,guitar,harmonica,drums, two vocalists -playing classic R&B, Motown, Rockin' Blues) and I used my WT-500 with one 410XLT and NEVER had to worry about being heard. Most gigs now I use a Bag End S15D and still have no trouble being heard in any venue we play.You sure you're not pretending you're in Wembly Stadium?
     
  10. Dodger Stadium actually.:D But seriously, when I go there and practice alone, my setup is very loud. But when the rest of the band is there, I feel like it could be louder. But if you had no problems with your WT-500, I'm starting to wonder if there might be something wrong with my amp. If my tube is messed up, will that affect the volume?
     
  11. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    You can do it with pretty much all cabs. An input on a cab can also be used as an output... the signal enters the first cab, but before reaching the speaker it is "split" between that cab and any cabs it's chained to. So as long as you have two 1/4" inputs (you have to do it differently with binding posts/bananas, and I'm not sure how it works with speakon jacks,) you plug your speaker cable into one cab, take another speaker cable and run that from the second input on the first cab to an input on cab #2.

    Almost all cab inputs are wired in parallel, so the impedance decreases with the number of cabs just like with parallel outputs on the back of an amp.
     
  12. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    On the other hand, you probably shouldn't bridge into a 4 ohm load. This is like running two ohms on each side. If Eden doesn't say it's okay, you'll probably generate too much heat and in the long run you'll shorten the life of your amp.
     
  13. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    i hate to say it, but seems like the signs of a immature drummer. i know that sounds snobby, but its funny how in my past bands, we'll all be chillin' when the drummer finally comes, and then we're playing volume wars.

    but if that's the way he plays, that's the way he plays. its amazing the amount of frequencies a drum set can mask.

    not to be redundant, but push your rig to whatever volume, and if that dont work, fiddle with the EQ. and like Golly said, EAR PLUGS. might actually send a mental note to your other band mates.
     
  14. It could be a combination of many factors IMO. Does your guitarist crank the bass knob on his amp? Fighting in the same frequency range there. Garages tend to be small and have concrete floors and walls so you don't have "ideal" acoustics and a drummer who lacks the ability to control his volume just makes the room roar since everyone is fighting to be heard above the drummer. My only suggestion besides getting everyone to turn it down a notch is to boost some mids on your amp. If I remember correctly I would boost a couple clicks around 800-1000mhz. 800 watts bridged should be plenty in your situation.
     
  15. well i just got a sweet deal on a second 410xlt cab so when i get it i'll see what that sounds like.

    jokerjkny, it's probably immaturity. i think it's just that before i joined the band, the guitarist used to play really loud to "compensate for the bass' absence". so there was never the issue of him being too loud. now we're trying to even out our volumes and it's becoming apparent. but he's working on it and i'm confident it will work out in the end. i wouldn't trade him for any other drummer. he is just that good.

    thanks for all the help guys!

    SeRg
     
  16. Boozy

    Boozy

    Apr 29, 2002
    Kelowna BC, Canada
    try re-arranging everyones positioning (equipment) in conjunction to one another.. we switched around our setup in our jam space (moved drums to different part of room, moved guitar and bass cabs to different parts of room, etc) .. guitars and bass had to turn down a bit and it sounds 100% better.. we can finally hear everyone and were not drowned out by our 1 super loud guitarist.. we dont have volume wars anymore either! it's just made all the difference in the world!

    i'd try that before anything else

    (i dont have a very great bass amp/cab setup - sunn head > 2x15 traynor cab & fender bxr60 combo) and i play with 2 distorted guitarists - 1 w/ 100W marshall head & 4x10 marshall cab, and 1 w/ 100W marshall head and 4x12 peavey cab, super heavy hitting, fast drummer, and 2 vocal mics going thru audiopro 1200 PA head into 2ea 18" w/ horn BW equipt peavey PA speakers.. we are pretty damn loud or so i've been told)
     
  17. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    Do you guys have any vocalist? It seems at that volume it would be hard for them to hear themselves and sing in tune..........anyways...if your preamp tube is bad it would effect your volume, that would be the easiest & cheapest thing to try first!
     
  18. LiquidMidnight

    LiquidMidnight

    Dec 25, 2000
    First, yes, I agree, you guys must be pretty darn loud.

    And 2nd is Zoomboy is very much correct. I usually have to crank my amp further when we practice in our drummer's basement than I do when we are playing a gig in a club. This is just because of the design and materials of basements and garages. Once you play a club, I bet most of your volume problems will disappear.
     
  19. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    joker, we're going to agree on this one. Only I was trying to find a slightly more derogatory way of saying it. You know, "... drummer breaks sticks at rehearsal ... shheeeeeeesh."

    I have the opposite problem. Our drummer uses #2 pencils for sticks. We have to mic him to hear him at all.