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Outrageous Prices For Old LPs

Discussion in 'Off Topic [DB]' started by Don Higdon, Sep 15, 2004.


  1. I had the original LP with Cannonball's name misspelled on the jacket. I had no idea collectors were paying big bucks for those, and I let it go to the junkheap with all my LP's when I moved
     
  2. oliebrice

    oliebrice

    Apr 7, 2003
    London, UK
    are they really paying big bucks? how big? I've got one of these, with Flamenco Sketches and All Blues listed the wrong way around. I don't think I'd sell it unless I could get a similarly lovely heavy vinvyl edition, say the second pressing... and enough money for a good tubular endpin installation!
     
  3. That's what I read in the book Kind Of Blue
     
  4. oliebrice

    oliebrice

    Apr 7, 2003
    London, UK
    yeah. I just read that book, it was really interesting... maybe I should investigate
     
  5. Please tell me you didn't really toss a bunch of LP's!?
    Vinyl is still the safest long term storage medium for music. CD's don't have any where near the life expectancy of a record.
     
  6. Sorry. About 8 feet of shelf space.
     
  7. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    enjoy..

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=306&item=4037498769&rd=1

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=306&item=4037513650&rd=1

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=306&item=4037812143&rd=1

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=306&item=4037354755&rd=1

    or if you have a lot of them

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=306&item=4037063192&rd=1

    It was my understanding that Craig Bailey (Tana/Reid Quintet among others) paid for his first independently released recording by selling his vinyl collection of Blue Notes and Riversides to Japanese collectors.
     
  8. Sam Sherry

    Sam Sherry Inadvertent Microtonalist Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2001
    Portland, ME
    Euphonic Audio "Player"
    Hank Mobley-Blue Note 1568-West 63rd-NEAR MINT!!!
    Item number: 4037498769
    Current bid: US $1,700.00
    Time left: 6 days 22 hours
    History: 17 bids (US $99.99 starting bid)

    Un-****ing-believable.

    Ed, with any luck, you've helped me enormously in financing my next record. 'Cuz every medium sounds "equally good" on my Close-and-Play system.

    Un-****ing-believable.
     
  9. hdiddy

    hdiddy Official Forum Flunkee Supporting Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    San Francisco, CA
    But I'm pretty sure that those records are in mint condition tho. I mean it's like comic books, once the spine has a crinkle in it, the prices starts to drop alot. The albums you have Sam gotta be in pristine condition. If not, how much you get for them will be questionable.

    I have a couple of old japanese model airplanes that apparently go way up if the box art is good and is still in in it's shrink wrap (which mine are). Time to check ebay...
     
  10. Dennis Kong

    Dennis Kong Supporting Member

    Sep 1, 2004
    San Mateo CA
    The theory is: the originals: (1st pressing of the LP's) sound better -most of the time. or just rare.
    ie: the Master tape is good shape - little oxidation.
    mother stampers are not worn out-
    BN, Prestige and others used heavier & better vinyl.
    the covers were made with laminated rather cardboard.
    and they didn't press as many copies as the majors labels
    like CBS, Columbia, etc. (smaller budget, smaller pressing
    plants, limited distribution in those days,)hence rare.

    ie: I've never seen any form or shape of Barney Wilen LP- Textile. (like to have a copy of that!!but too pricey for me.)

    Having collected jazz lps with poorman's budget, and having
    some friends who collect the originals only (1st pressings),
    who also own expensive high end stereo systems: you would be able appreciate them sonically & musically. (audiophile stuff). As I 've had chance to listen some of these LP's
    on high end systems. And comparing 2nd pressings, Ja. pressings, CD's to the originals, they do sound great:
    They capture the ambience of the room, the
    intended vibe of the players, timbre of the instrument,
    nuances of the soloist, etc
    The other pressings generally don't sound as good but close
    enough for me. I 'll settle for 2nd pressing of the same
    thing. ( a lot cheaper and in better condition.)
    Like collecting old guitars or old wines or old basses & bows.

    Hdiddy is also right: they have to be in mint condition ( like
    out of a time machine. no scratches at all on the LP, the
    covers should not have cuts, bends, writings, and must
    have original inner sleeve. otherwise they aren't worth
    much!!)
     
  11. Just hoping if somebody who is knowledgable would elaborate on the CD versus 1st pressing comparison. Does the vinyl version usually sound better? Wouldn't the CD be made from the master tape and sound like a first pressing? Is vinyl a better medium for the sound than CD?
     
  12. Alexi David

    Alexi David

    May 15, 2003
    NYC
    I recently paid about 80 dollars for the mingus at UCLA 1965 LP. But that's because the master tapes have been destroyed, so it's quite unlikely there will be a reissue. It's silly how many of us have paid lots of money for a rare recording only to have it reissued with bonus tracks the next month........
     
  13. Dennis Kong

    Dennis Kong Supporting Member

    Sep 1, 2004
    San Mateo CA
    That's great debate: cd vs vinyl.
    Several factors involved here: Where one start??
    To make it short n concise: Most of the time for jazz:the 1st
    pressing sound better than the cd.
    It would also depend on which:
    record company, recording session, artist, pressing plant,
    engineer, mix -stereo & mono versions.
    For the Blue Note, Prestige,Argo,Impulse,Mercury,Riverside,
    Pacific Jazz, VJ, and few others: the 1st pressings generally sound the best.
    in Mono for smaller groups (quintets or less)
    and there's always exceptions too.
    Ie: The Transistion Label 1st pressings do not sound too good as they were made with poor quality vinyl.
    The reissue of the Ja.version sound better because that company used better vinyl.
    But a lot of collectors want the original anyway-(not for fidelity). very rare.
    I have a Ja.Lp & cd of some of the Transition material. I could
    never afford the originals & they don't sound too good. (too many pops & ticks, intermittant tape hiss, poor mix, etc.) Own: Byrd Blows on Beacon St-
    (JA.cd)( hard to find on CD,) Doug Watkins- playing some solo stuff- live at the Beacon Hill club.
    and: Watkins At Large.
    ( JA. BN Lp.) -originally on Transition,
    and I 've only seen one beat up original for $250.00
    Cd's really depend: the company,and what the
    shape the master tape was in when the company reissued
    it. A lot times the original tapes are in bad condition due to
    oxidation, poor storage, type & brand acetate tape., or lost,
    or thrown out. etc.
    And the issuing company often uses the safety tapes for
    mastering ( sometimes knowly, sometimes not.) Mike
    Cuscuna of Mosiac Records could really tell you about that!!
    Then: the remix of the reissue on vinyl or cd. A lot times,
    the company who remixes it does not do a good job.
    ie; too much sax. too little bass, treble range is too bright,
    etc. (some of the early 80's & 90's cd 's).
    and the sampling rate: 16 & 24 bit is still to small to capture
    a lot of the details of the recording.
    Altho: the new Van Gelder BN cd's & Classic Lp reissues are really quite good and pretty close to the original.
    And last: the person's playback system. If you have a good
    stereo system you can really hear a difference.
    Brian of the Analog Room in San Jose Ca carries some most
    expensive gear. ie: $500- 20,000 turntables, $100- 2000+
    cartridges, etc. And he has owns many original LPs and sells the Classic reissues. So you get chance to A-B them.
    It helps to know someone like him who collects Lps,deals with
    high end equip, and also plays an instrument.
    Hope thats not too much info.
    Mingusfingers has a good point too. Sometimes I spend the big
    $$ for an Lp and I 'll see the cd with many bonus tracks a
    couple months later. And Just saw an autographed Lp of Mingus' live in Monterey album!! $100.00 fair shape at
    Village Music in Mill Valley CA.
     
  14. Fifteen years from now your vinyl will still play. Chances are, a CD will not. Especially cheap or burned CD's.
    Even the CD manufacturers don't recommend CD's for archival storage. CD rot sets in and the info recorded is not retrievable.
     
  15. Are you serious? CD rot? C'mon. Splain to me what that is, what causes it, etc.
     
  16. The data on a CD are represented by physical depressions or dimples in the substrate. Data are read from the CD using a laser which reflects (or not) from the backing behind the substrate. Commercially made CDs are made using glass-masters (very expensive) and are pressed in a similar way to how vinyl LPs used to be manufactured. The CDs which the average home-user burns use a blank disc (CD-R) which contains a layer of a dye, in which holes are burned (or not) using a writing laser. The CD is read using a less-powerful laser, which can now read the data from the burned CD.

    Here's the problem: Commercially made CDs tend to be fairly robust, and even when scratched, the reading software can interpolate between bad reads (up to a point) and reconstruct missing data. They are not sensitive to light. The CD-R blanks which the average home-user burns contain a layer which is sensitive to light (how else would the laser burn the data onto the CD?) - and over a period of time, the CD will start generating errors, until eventually it becomes useless.

    There are other considerations, such as the quality of the CD blank itself (e.g. how well the aluminium reflective backing is sealed into the CD). The main thing is that the home-burned CDs should be (1) handled carefully, and (2) stored even more carefully (away from light)

    There is lots of good info. about this on the web (hint: google )

    Hope this helps -
    - Wil
     
  17. Marcus Johnson

    Marcus Johnson

    Nov 28, 2001
    Maui
    So I guess scattering my home-burned CDs all over the floor of my truck, out of their cases, is not the way to go?

    Rhetorical question, of course.
     
  18. Damon Rondeau

    Damon Rondeau Journeyman Clam Artist Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2002
    Winnipeg, baby
    ...but it's not like music is all alone with this problem. Now that we've got these computers producing all this data all over the place -- music, images, databases, libraries, all of it stuff that we want to keep forever for free -- the problem of storing digitized information long-term exists across the board. Folks who care will pay attention and will re-generate the data into appropriate storage media. That's one of the beauties of digital, after all: simple replication.

    There will still be vinyl-heads fifty years from now (fewer, though), there may or may not be many CD-heads, but you can bet your life that digital will be king.
     
  19. Nick Ara

    Nick Ara

    Jul 22, 2002
    Long Island, NY
    Lately, I'm seeing an increasing number of manufacturers selling CD-R's for "music". If digital is, well, digital, what difference should it make if I'm recording music (MP3, ogg, etc), movies (mpg), or backing up my Excel spreadsheets?

    Will the CD's made for "music" wear better or longer? Will they be of higher fidelity? Perhaps most of all, if I take good care of my discs, will they be around longer if they are of "music" quality?

    I've searched all over the place and haven't found a clear answer to these questions? Audiophiles, pls feel free to jump in.