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Pair of 1x10 vs 2x10

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by john-boro, Dec 18, 2018.


  1. john-boro

    john-boro

    May 8, 2009
    Hi guys,

    I'm eyeing up the Genzler array gear. The 1x10 cabs look great, I feel as though I like the punchy lows of 10 inch speakers, and I like their carry handle location and size. *Volume*-wise, I think a pair would be enough.

    However, I need decent low end depth for B string reproduction. Now, I have in mind that the large cab volume of a 2x10 or a 1x12 tends to help with this all else being equal. BUT what if the cab volume is split across two cabs, as in a pair of 1x10s? Does the same reasoning apply?
    Cheers
     
  2. mmbongo

    mmbongo Five Time World Champion Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2009
    Carolinas
    First thing is to forget about driver size determining what a speaker sounds like.

    Secondly, as long as you're talking about similarly designed speakers...in this case let's assume all speakers are Genzler Array's.....

    A pair of 10's (or a 2x10) will be louder than a 1x12.
    There is no real sound difference between a pair of 1x10's and a single 2x10.
    A pair of 1x12's will get you the best of both worlds...punchy low end and deeper, more powerful response. But they will cost more, weigh more, and will be bigger.

    So really, it depends on what you want. Do you want small and modular, or do you want loud and deep?
     
    tomich and TrevorG like this.
  3. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    Massachusetts, USA
    If the specs on the Genzler website are to be believed (and generally it's a company with a great reputation) the BA210-3 cabinet has frequency response down to 45hz, whereas the BA10-2 has frequency response down to 55hz. All other things being equal, this suggests the Genzler 2x10 is a better choice for reproducing low B string frequencies than the 1x10.
     
    john-boro likes this.
  4. john-boro

    john-boro

    May 8, 2009
    Thanks for your reply. This is the key point for me. My ideal would be a portable and modular rig and if two 1x10s really can produce lows the same as a single 2x10 (I don't understand this but is it something about coupling?), then that might be the best choice. 2 1x12s are out of the question as I need to be able to carry one cab in a cajon bag for public transport gigs. A 1x10 + 1x12 is an intriguing option I guess.
     
  5. john-boro

    john-boro

    May 8, 2009
    Thanks, this is handy. I guess as above my question is whether a pair of 1x10s can be considered as effectively the same as a 2x10. The post above suggests so but if both 1x10s are only reproducing down to 55Hz I am not sure how it can be so.. hmm
     
  6. mmbongo

    mmbongo Five Time World Champion Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2009
    Carolinas
    Their site does not say how the frequency responses are measured, so let's assume both figures are the -6db point for the sake of this post. So the 1x10 is -6 db at 55hz, the 2x10 is -6 at 45 hz. However, a pair of 1x10's is 3db louder than a single 1x10 so that will extend the -6 db point down lower than 55hz. How low? They do not state.

    @agedhorse recently stated that the new Mesa 2x15 cabinet is essentially the same soundwise as two of the Mesa 115 cabinets. Same principle.
     
    john-boro likes this.
  7. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    Massachusetts, USA
    For what it's worth, even 55hz is considered excellent frequency response for a bass cab. :)
     
    pjbassist and Charlzm like this.
  8. RColie

    RColie Supporting Member

    Nov 21, 2007
    St. Louis, MO
    My understanding is that the 10 inch woofers in the 210 are different than the woofers in the 110 (maybe @JeffGenzler can verify that), so the 210 might be deeper because of that. The stack of two 110s has the advantage of being easier to hear vs. the low profile 210, unless you put the 210 on a stand. Folks here on TalkBass seem to think a pair of 110s handles the B string just fine, depending on your volume need of course.

    Bob
     
  9. FugaziBomb

    FugaziBomb

    Jun 5, 2017
    :eyebrow:
     
    JimChjones likes this.
  10. KJMO

    KJMO

    Feb 6, 2015
    He may be talking about the particular genzler 12's, vs the particular genzler 10's.

    The 10's in the ba210 are faitals probably more like the ba112 faital drivers, whereas the ba110 drivers are eminence. Plus, I think the ba112 is vented, whereas I am pretty sure the ba110 is sealed. The small drivers are different too, and go higher on the ba110. crossover point is different too, so I guess the ba110 is a real oddball. It is a really good oddball though, in my experience so far.
     
  11. bherman

    bherman Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2009
    Grand Junction, CO
    Reach out to Jeff Genzler - he's always been very approachable and I am sure will give you guidance.
     
    pjbassist likes this.
  12. Two 212s. Small shows, big shows, outdoor shows, practice, alone. 1 or 2 will handle anything you'll ever need them for. And 2, looks very impressive stacked on eachother.
     
  13. eude

    eude

    Apr 13, 2006
    London
    Just my 2p here...

    I've got 2 Ashdown Mi10 1x10 cabs, and I was never hugely impressed with them, at least initially.
    I was using them with an older Ashdown Class D head and at anything over medium volumes, they seemed a little gutless, however having since used them with an old school Ashdown ABM head, I realised that the Class D power stage was not doing the set up any favours.
    This combination had SO much more guts, and effortless low end when compared to the Class D head.

    So, just keep in mind that you need to consider your amp too in this context.
    From what I hear, some newer Class Ds are catching up with older style solid state amps when it comes to "heft", but I'm going back to good old fashioned iron for my amp from now on, and keeping my little 1x10 cabs :cool:

    Eude
     
  14. chris_b

    chris_b

    Jun 2, 2007
    I have 2 8 ohm 110's and 2 12/4 ohm 210's (Barefaced 210's have switchable impedance) so depending on the gig, I can run them separately or together for 1, 2, 3 or 4 x 10 rigs. I like the flexibility.
     
  15. cnltb

    cnltb

    May 28, 2005
    i like 1x10s for their directness and (often) portability.
    I also like the 'warmer' feel of 12s.
     
  16. It's not exactly as simple as two 110s sounding identical to any 210, but for the sake of argument let's say you just bought two "10 speakers.

    First, you think you only need one - so you do up some math, get told by talkbass that you should just get a fearful, cut up some plywood and assemble it into something resembling a decent 110 cab. Then you put a ten inch speaker to it. It's pretty good, individually, but then you think it'd sound better if it were louder. So you take that old math you did and make another box resembling a decent bass cab and put the other 10 into it.

    Now you've got it pretty good you say, as the one cabinet sounds good, but both cabinets sound the same together except louder. Eventually you come to the idea that you could just make a cabinet with the same international volume and porting as the two cabs combined. So you do that and build a box that resembles a decent 210 cabinet, and put both 10s into it. You are now pleased as punch because it sounds exactly like the two cabinets together, more or less, except now you only need to carry one.

    In this way, two 110s will sound basically the same as one 210.

    This oversimplifies some things like baffle step, which might change the sound a bit. But from the reading I've done if you play through two identical cabinets it'll sound more or less just a bit louder than playing through one - which will sound more or less the the same as a cabinet that's basically identical in design to those two cabinets, just combined into one convenient platform.

    This starts to change when you start changing speakers and overall designs, though.
     
  17. micguy

    micguy

    May 17, 2011
    If a 210 cabinet is well designed, splitting it into two identical cabinets with half the internal volume of the original cabinet and stacking them will give you identical low frequency performance. That’s the Physics of this.

    The Marketing and specs that the company chooses to publish may or may not reflect the actual performance of things.
     
  18. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    I’ve got a Goliath Junior 2x10 can that will easily handle a low B string with ease because SWR designed tgat series with 5-string basses in mind. And now that 5-strings are far more common that they were when SWR was still around, I think you’ll find most of the newer cabs are designed to handle those lows as well.

    The thing to remember is it’s not just the speaker size or model that’s important so much as it’s the cab it’s loaded in. The cab design and speaker(s) need to be matched and tuned to get the best sound possible. You can’t slap any speaker in just any enclosure and have it sound good. They’re a system.
     
  19. Blueinred

    Blueinred

    Mar 12, 2009
    Greater Cincy
    All of the above advice (driver types, cab design, etc) but you must also consider impedance, too. If you use a newer type amp into an eight ohm cab (1x10 or 2x10), you're only delivering about half the watts available and about 2/3's the volume compared to 4 ohms of resistance allowing full watts/volume. Two 1x10s at 4 ohms will be more "present" and dynamic than a 2x10 at 8 ohms. So it depends on your amp AND cab(s) impedance. I use a Genz Benz Shuttlemax 9.2 with a Genz Uber 2x10 and it's nice (at 8 ohms). But it KILLS with that cab over a 4x10 at 4 ohms, no matter the volume. (Yes, I mix cabs, so sue me!)

    A 1x10 or 2x10 designed for 4 ohms gets full output, also. Sealed or ported to taste/room. Putting out frequencies below 55 hz. is not necessarily dependent upon driver size, as I understand it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  20. drewphishes

    drewphishes Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2017
    Philly
    eden EX112 x 2. all day every day
     

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