pair of 410s...stacked or side by side?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by WCHIII, Dec 17, 2012.


  1. Geri O

    Geri O Endorsing Artist, Mike Lull Guitars and Basses Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 6, 2013
    Florence, MS
    Let me fall into the pattern of respondents that offer answers totally unrelated to the original question....

    If you really want to save everyone’s hearing, including yours, go completely ampless and use in-ear monitoring.

    Yes, a facetious answer, but wasn’t it fun!...:D

    Actually, I’ve done all the above successfully. I prefer completely ampless and spent a lot of money on good IEMs.

    However, I still do a lot of gigs with an amp. It’s been a pair of 410s, an SVT 810 cab, and now a pair of Mesa Subway 115s. In all cases, I prefer the the cabs upright and/or stacked. The main reason is having the cab up close to the ears to hear better. And of course, it’s easier to adjust the amp controls set up that high...:roflmao:. And of course, it preserves the oh-so-often mentioned precious footprint. Oh, and my bass wireless and IEM unit works better on top of the amp that high in the air! (Never enough facetiousness....:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:).

    Yes, I’ll do amps when I’m asked to bring an amp, but I’d rather do IEMs. I set it up and make a general announcement about where the volume control is and feel free to set it where they like it. Funny, in nearly every case, another player dials it up (or down) to nearly inaudible levels and swear they can hear the bass just fine. I try to not take it personally, adjust my IEM mix, and have a good gig.

    This might not have been terribly informative, but it was a fun way to start the week....:roflmao:

    Good luck, OP. It’s not brain surgery. Try it both ways and see what suits you. Hopefully, your life will be much less complicated than a lot of other folks, including and especially mine....:roflmao::roflmao:.
     
    Rich67 likes this.
  2. crguti

    crguti

    Feb 14, 2011
    Scandinavia
    one each side of the stage
     
  3. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    To improve the video shot by reducing the impact on the background or to allow the player to stand out visually better in the shots.
     
  4. This creates peaks and valleys in the audience, know as a Power Alley.
    Some will get tons of bass and a few feet away to the left or right it will almost disappear.
    See image below on how the distance cabs are apart effect what the room gets.



    Displacement_02.jpg
     
    Kaplan, bobyoung53, mrm56 and 2 others like this.
  5. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    Note that the "power alley" effect is generally nowhere near as great as predicted or prognosticated. In practice, the boundary reflections greatly temper the "theory" with additional math.
     
    gitfiddl, Geri O and S-Bigbottom like this.
  6. Yup.

    Though I have been to a few places, especially Churches where the PA Tops were on top of the Sub on each side of the stage.
    I can sit in the pew and barely hear the bass, slide over a few butt lengths and woof woof. You can also reverse this if needing relief from the bass. :smug:

    My building in particular was really bad at it.
     
  7. In the past when I/we used two 4x10 cabs, we stuck one on either side of the drums, maybe a foot out to either side, with the guitarist's 2x12" amp on top on one side and the keyboard monitor/amp on the other. It made for a nice tidy stage and the bass weren't far enough apart to cause any real issues.
     
  8. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    And there may not be any real issues even if pure theory predicts otherwise. That's because pure theory does not include other very important factors in how signals acoustically sum.
     
    /\/\3phist0, Geri O and gitfiddl like this.
  9. Agreed. In our case. in some venues we benefited from being in sort if a wide corner. Others, we were backed up against a wall. There are always variables that theories rarely account for. And in my experience, I have yet NOT been able to find an aurally satisfactory work-around.
     
  10. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    Even a point source sub is no longer a point source once it reflects off of any boundary. Sometimes, left/right subs work out better because of the boundary conditions in the veue. Sometimes not. Usually, it just changes things around, shifts the issues in either position, frequency or both.

    This is why obsessing over something that you have almost no control of is relatively pointless.
     
  11. micguy

    micguy

    May 17, 2011
    Stacking doesn't increase anything - it preserves the horizontal dispersion of a single driver, and reduces (quite a bit) the vertical dispersion. It does get the highest driver a bit closer to your ears, which is a benefit a lot of the time. With a floor boundary (last I checked vertical stacks have to be on some sort of floor, or they fall) the "center" of the vertical beam of a vertical ground stack actually propagates at floor level - the reflection off the floor creates "virtual drivers" below the floor.

    One stacking technique not often discussed is true horizontal stacking - all the drivers near the floor (think of tipping a vertical stack on its side). That technique gives you decent vertical dispersion (If you can angle the drivers up, even better), and tight horizontal dispersion. If you're playing a big stage where you're a distance from your amp, and you don't move much left and right, that technique can get a healthy signal to your ears, and not blast the rest of the folks on stage with your mids and high end. Think of it as a wide monitor wedge behind you.
     
  12. micguy

    micguy

    May 17, 2011
    I've been to concerts where the sound folks were careful to center the stage and speakers between two walls, and outdoor events (no significant reflections) where the power alley was really obvious if you walked the audience area. But yes, in a lot of rooms, it's not as bad as you would think.
     
  13. chadds

    chadds

    Mar 18, 2000
    Bassist for the Eagles did it. If you aren’t throwing into the room and it’s only for your mates on stage what difference does it make?

    I live and believe science. Next there is real life experience. The TB scientists state the theory. I have no objection.

    I play frequently in a 300 year old barn with a ceiling I can’t say how high it is! My two cabs setup sounds better with the cabs side by side.

    So the real deal is that I make the choice based on my personal experience. I am capable of being flexible and adapting to what works.
     
    S-Bigbottom and agedhorse like this.
  14. Stack vertically unless playing on a boat. There's a thing though, with taller cabs, I've seen guys with dual 810's do: they're right next to each other but angled inward a bit. Supposed to help with dispersion? Does this work in the same way I sometimes see stereo microphones arranged, aimed in a 'crossed' manner?
     
  15. bobyoung53

    bobyoung53 Supporting Member


    And sometimes we corny!:laugh:
     
    BassmanPaul likes this.
  16. bobyoung53

    bobyoung53 Supporting Member


    I've been using SVT's for 45 years, I did that once or twice, sounds like crap, all you hear is bottom.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  17. bobyoung53

    bobyoung53 Supporting Member


    That usually highly annoys the people on the other side of the stage unless you're a very soft subdued player, ask me how I know that.
     
    /\/\3phist0 likes this.
  18. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    Often they are angled up about 10-15 degrees which helps with this.
     
    gitfiddl and bobyoung53 like this.
  19. /\/\3phist0

    /\/\3phist0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) mmm Woody! DHDIK?

    ✓ this^^^^^^^^^^
     
    bobyoung53 likes this.
  20. /\/\3phist0

    /\/\3phist0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) mmm Woody! DHDIK?

    Because , the amp is a stage prop.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Sep 19, 2021

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.