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Paper or aluminum???????

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by kiwiboy, Feb 24, 2005.


  1. Paper or aluminum cone, what's the difference? Ive never tried an aluminum cone cab before so bear with me. Any major (dis)advantages to each? :confused:
     
  2. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    from my guitar speaker experience,

    ally cones will add a good deal of brightness to the overall tone. it'll also be much more sturdy and resistant to high volumes.
     
  3. Tash

    Tash

    Feb 13, 2005
    Bel Air Maryland
    Aluminum has a very distinct sound to it. Its clearer with a more pronounced attack throughout the range, particularly in the upper register. I prefer it to paper (which has more of a growl to it), but its something you need to hear yourself before deciding.

    The downside to aluminum is that its more expensive, with less power handling than comperable paper cabs, and you don't have a whole lot of choices when it comes to manufacturer. At this point I think you're limited to Hartke and Behringer. The first makes some very nice aluminum cone cabs that cost an a$$load of money, the second makes cheaper knockoffs of those same cabs with questionable reliabilty.
     
  4. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    really? do tell...
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    I've played through alluminum driver Hartke 112s, 115s, and 410s on a regular basis. To throw in a negative review-

    I have disliked them more than any cabs i've played through. They have pronounced highs, but they don't have much else, and they can by very thin and tinny sounding. Not much bottom. The amount of treble gets very irritating (or earitating!). The least warmth of cabs I've played through. I guess it works if the only thing you do is slap or if you want a very cold, thin, sterile tone.

    Some people live by them, though. So it is really you love them or hate them.
     
  6. Tash

    Tash

    Feb 13, 2005
    Bel Air Maryland
    Sorry, should have included "in the same price range". Aluminum cabs tend to run more expensive paper cone cabs with simillar ratings.
     
  7. andruca

    andruca

    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    After years of using Hartke stuff (I had 2 4.5XL cabs then I whitched to a 4.5XL + 215XL configuration) I got a little tired of its sound and also tired of having to always cut the 2KHz and neighboring frequencies on my EQ. They are super punchy and produce great volume, but they may not be as versatile as paper cones (the good ones, 'cause there's also crap in the paper world too). Also I'm tired of lugging 200lb of speakers to gigs. I'm saving up for switching to a pair of 21012 Schroeder cabs.

    ANDRUCA
     
  8. dood

    dood

    Dec 9, 2004
    sitting down,facingforward..UK
    Endorsements: Shuker Guitars, Dingwall Designer Guitars, D'Addario, Planet Waves, Barefaced Bass
    For me, I found that if you tried to treat the Alu like a paper cone, and EQ it the same way, it sounds pants. I also found that the lower ranges available, like the 'Transporter' range from Hartke and even the 410xl lacked low end grunt.

    You are better off spending a bit more if you want Alu to perform, but thats only becasue it costs more for Alu cones in the first place. An Analagy (sorry its UK cars.. not really familiar with US ones!)
    If you saw a Mercedes priced up at the same price as a ford.. wouldn't you suspect something was up? you know that it costs more to make a Merc.. you'd be daft to buy the Merc.. you pay for what you get (most of the time anyway!)

    I had absolutely no problems sending my guitarist into oblivion with 2 Hartke 4.5xl cabs.. I ran these with a practically flat EQ..loads a' bottom end and, as above, I do agree that the Alu cones are more conservatively rated..
    Each cone is only 100W , where obviously, for the same price per speaker, you could easily get a paper one at 300W.

    As for a cold and sterile tone.. yeah, they can do that, but so can paper cones. depends on how you EQ them.. after all, *I* see no problem with EQ'ing a little warm middle tone in if required.
     
  9. dood

    dood

    Dec 9, 2004
    sitting down,facingforward..UK
    Endorsements: Shuker Guitars, Dingwall Designer Guitars, D'Addario, Planet Waves, Barefaced Bass
    Oh, I forgot to say though.. the cabs are bl**dy heavy!!!!
     
  10. Paper for me. :hyper:
     
  11. "I guess it works if the only thing you do is slap or if you want a very cold, thin, sterile tone."
    Really? Hmmm, My Hartke 215XL would probably argue with you on that point.......and I beleive "andruca" said he used to own a 215XL, maybe he would like to comment :)
     
  12. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    I used them for several years in the past.

    They handled severly humid weather VERY well (caribbean), when paper cone speakers would sound mushy and slow to me, and would even occassionally grow greed mold and physically deteriorate from the moisture. Also did not get sluggish when carted around in rainy weather, for the same reason.

    Cons, they will crack if plugged in and played right when taken in from freezing temperatures, they get brittle when really cold, so you have to let them warm up to room temp first. Secondly, the expansion/contraction rate is different between the aluminum cone and the felt dust cover, so they frequently became partially unglued and buzzed. Happened to EVERY one of my Hartke drivers over the years. Simple and cheap to reglue, but many a gig sounded like I had a blown speaker because of it.

    I no longer play them, not because of reliability, but because my interest in sound has changed. Some people really like the sonic character, some don't. To each his own.
     
  13. fcoda

    fcoda

    Jan 23, 2002
    Nanuet,NY
    I use a Hartke 4x10 cab the 4200 Pro model , it handles the low b very well , punchy with nice clear lows- much better than the other Hartke alum cabs due to the cab size - for larger venues I it use a Avatar 2x12 ( paper ) with the 4x10 . Its a matter of what you prefer .
     
  14. I played through a supplied Hartke 8x10 with aluminum cones for a gig tryout; that thing was the worst sounding amp I've ever played through. There was absolutely no bottom and it farted out all the low stuff I had to play.
     
  15. andruca

    andruca

    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    Exactly my case. My tastes are changing speaker-wise and I also need louder speakers so I'll move to the Schroeders. Also weight and efficiency are a factor I consider now and barely cared about before (when you're young you NEED to have your sexy looking -phisically- "monster" rig, bet this happened to almost everybody). All in all I had a superb experience both with my Hartke 3500 head and continue having it with my cabs. I'll let you know how much better are the Schroeders when I get them (3rd of 4th quarter 2005, if you need reviews sooner, you can start contributing with some cash! ;)).

    ANDRUCA
     
  16. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    i think most of the hartke stuff is only rated down to a shallow 50Hz.
     
  17. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    With hartke, if you blow the speakers, you better hope nobody's standing in front of it, cuz the shrapnel will kill them! :p



    /half joking
     
  18. Pneuma

    Pneuma

    Feb 14, 2004
    Arkansas
    I played through a Hartke combo with an Al cone for probably 2 years. I always thought it was tinny and it did whistle a bit (I guess we should check for cone sparation).

    Probably won't ever go back to an aluminum cone. Not for bass playing anyway.

    P.
     
  19. "i think most of the hartke stuff is only rated down to a shallow 50Hz."

    My 215XL is rated at 30 Hz. Where are you getting your info? , just making it up as you go? there is no way you can compare a 410XL with a 215XL or a 110 with a 115 ..... I've got more bottom than I could ever use......"andruca" tell them how tinny your old 215xl sounded ....Did'nt you tell me you used to own one?
     
  20. dood

    dood

    Dec 9, 2004
    sitting down,facingforward..UK
    Endorsements: Shuker Guitars, Dingwall Designer Guitars, D'Addario, Planet Waves, Barefaced Bass
    Highpines, +1 .... >>

    My 4.5XL
    Power Handling: 400 Watts @ 8 Ohms
    Frequency Response: 30 Hz To 12 kHz
    Sensitivity: 99 dB @ 1 W/1 M


    The 215XL
    Power Handling: 400 Watts @ 4 Ohms
    Frequency Response: 30 Hz To 1 kHz
    Sensitivity: 99 dB @ 1 W/1 M