PayPal “item not as described” Horror Story – Reverb saves the day

WARNING for all sellers who accept PayPal.

We just went through an experience with PayPal that I hope no one else will ever have to endure. Going forward, I would seriously think twice about accepting payment through PayPal when selling any of your instruments. This is proof that PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer no matter what.

The following experience involves a guitar and not a bass, but the type of instrument doesn’t matter – it’s what transpired and how PayPal handled it. This ordeal spanned 2 months start to finish.

My son and I are both bass players, and have recently been selling off some instruments that are no longer being used. Several ads have been placed through Reverb, including the sale of a Moog keyboard and an F-Bass 5-string. In both cases payment was made through PayPal, and there were no issues.

The last item we decided to sell was a Jackson Christian Olde-Wolbers (Fear Factory)
7-string guitar that we purchased for my son as a Birthday gift 10 years ago (my son even took lessons with COW for about two years.) Although my son is a bassist, he did double-duty in a pop band several years ago where 90% of the time he played bass, but he’d switch to guitar when the female lead vocalist played bass on a few select tunes. This guitar was used live only a few times, was in near new condition and had been stored carefully in a well-padded gig bag for the last 6-7 years.






The ad on Reverb included several photos of the guitar, all showing the near new condition, as it only had a few very minor scratches and absolutely no dings (it was accurately listed in Excellent condition for $650 including the well padded gig bag and 8 sets of strings.) The ad was answered, and a guy in Colorado bought the guitar. It was (over) packed extremely well for shipping. It was shipped via UPS fully insured and required a signature upon delivery.

Here’s where the Horror begins. It’s a long read, but I’ve done my best to keep the story as short as possible. This ordeal was an emotional roller coaster I wouldn’t wish on anyone.


- A few days later, the buyer reported to Reverb & PayPal that the guitar he received was “not as described” and requested a refund and that he would return the guitar. He acknowledged through Reverb that it was packed securely, but claimed the guitar had some dings that were not disclosed and the condition was not what he expected. We had no idea what he was talking about, and asked him to provide photos.

The following buyer photos were poor to begin with, but got worse when I tried to increase the size:




- The photos we received clearly showed some dings that were not on the guitar when shipped. The damage wasn’t terrible, but needless to say, we were pissed. It was obvious to us that this guy had dinged the guitar after it was unboxed, and now wanted his money back. We told the buyer there was no way we’d refund his money and accept the guitar back in worse condition.

- At this point the aggravation kicked in that as we knew we were dealing with a bold-faced liar.

- We immediately contacted Reverb, who was provided with “before” and “after” photos. They acknowledged the photos showed damage after the guitar had been received, but their initial response was to work it out through PayPal.

- The buyer opened a Dispute Case File with PayPal requesting a refund. We uploaded the same before and after photos of the guitar as evidence into the case file. The buyer presented absolutely no evidence at all (nor did PayPal require him to do so.)

- I contacted PayPal by phone to state our case, which fell on deaf ears. I escalated this to a supervisor and was told they “do not review evidence.” I learned that they had already told the buyer to return the guitar for a full refund. I was livid, but it was too late – I figured we’d deal with it when the guitar was returned.

- The guitar arrived at our house about a week later on a Friday (the buyer shipped it FedEx Ground.) The box was left on our front porch (no signature required.) Knowing we were dealing with someone who has no integrity, I decided to video the un-boxing once I had gotten home from work.

- Upon review, the outside of the box was still in pretty good shape and showed no obvious signs of abuse. As the box was opened, the first thing we noticed the guitar was NOT packed the same as when it was shipped by us. The big-bubble wrap bumper which padded the headstock and neck for transit was missing, as well as the bumper at the bottom of the guitar; other internal padding to keep the guitar from shifting in transit was missing (when we packed the guitar there was no wiggle room in the box.)


- When the guitar was out of the box, we placed the gig bag on the folding table. My son unzipped the gig bag, and a bad situation got a whole lot worse:



- THE HEADSTOCK WAS BROKEN!!!???!!! We were in shock. If the minor damage we saw in the photos would have been the extent of the damage, we could have easily sold the guitar again. This had now escalated to another level.

- Since it was Friday night, my first step was to notify FedEx. However, I knew full well that this was not a FedEx issue (as the guitar was packed poorly) and that they would not claim responsibility. I also knew requesting the buyer to escalate this with FedEx would have been pointless.

- We uploaded the new photos of the guitar with the broken headstock (and more) into the PayPal case file. I also e-mailed them and called the following Monday to report what had happened. To add insult to injury, PayPal had refunded the money to the buyer, and were now asking us to reimburse them the full $650.

- I notified Reverb as well and provided them the photos and included the video of the un-boxing. Again, their initial response was to work it out with PayPal. I pointed out to Reverb that their own website states that if an item is returned, the buyer is responsible PACKING THE ITEM AS RECEIVED with all of the same materials, so when were they going to step up and stand by their own policy?

- After providing them with proof that the guitar was now broken due to the action of the buyer - you’ll love this…PayPal notified me a few days later that buyer claimed this is one of the reasons he no longer wanted the guitar, and that they were closing the case file (***!!!)

- Although I was absolutely spent from this ordeal and PayPal’s lack of logic, I contacted them one more time to state my case. To my surprise, they acknowledged the photos of the broken guitar, and the person actually sounded sympathetic. I also pointed out that if the guitar had been initially received broken, the buyer would have taken it up with UPS because IT WAS FULLY INSURED! She reopened the case file, and told me to provide a “Damage Report” (a signed document from a local music store with their assessment, along with all shipping details and photos) for this to go in our favor. With this request, I finally thought there was light at the end of the tunnel.

- In between all this madness, we received some unexpected, but VERY GOOD news. Brian at Reverb notified me that they would send a call tag for the guitar, and would buy it for the full $650 once it had been received. NICE! He said that PayPal has a history of siding with the buyer no matter what. Although his generous offer would make us whole again, I did not accept it right away. I was hell bent on justice being done, and told Brian that I was going to see if PP would do the right thing and find in our favor, finally making the scumbag buyer responsible for his actions.

- I provided everything that PayPal had requested within 48 hours, including The Damage Report (with store contact info so they could verify,) our fully insured UPS shipping and his non-insured FedEx shipping info, photos, the buyers acknowledgement that the guitar had been packed securely, etc. The music store that did the report even suggested that with the way the headstock was split, there was a very good chance that the buyer had broken it even before it was returned. A matter of fact, the dings/marks on the guitar that did not exist when sold were consistent with the guitar being leaned up against an amp and falling over. Bottom line, an 8 year old could have reviewed all of the evidence we had provided and found in our favor. Keep in mind through all of this the buyer did not provide a single shred of evidence, just 6 words: the item was “not as described.”

- A week later we received the final word from PayPal – they found in the buyer’s favor, and were closing the case – what a freakin’ shock (NOT!)


Dear xxxxx xxxxx,

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

We have completed our review to your appeal for the above case.

The damage noted in your appeal was cited by your buyer as the reason for the complaint. Therefore, our original decision remains.

We regret any inconvenience this may have caused you and encourage you to work directly with your buyer for further resolution.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Sincerely,
xxxxx xxxxxxxx
Protection Services Department
PayPal

That was it, dealing with PayPal was over. They proved that no matter what they will side with the buyer, even if the buyer is fully responsible for breaking your instrument. Dealing with PayPal was horrible, like speaking with mindless drones whom seemingly cannot think for themselves or apply any thought or logic whatsoever. It’s very clear that the “Damage Report” they requested was never going to be considered, and only an exercise they requested to make it appear that they were doing their due diligence in considering all of the facts. The contact at the music store also confirmed that he NEVER heard from PayPal.

In the end, Reverb was the Hero. I really appreciate Reverb stepping up and doing the right thing here to stand by their own policy. Brian followed through, and as soon as they placed the $650 in PayPal, it was snatched up. As stated, this whole thing transpired over about an eight week period, so by this point PayPal had sent this matter to collections (which was quickly resolved.)

From this point forward, we’ll never accept payment through PayPal for an instrument again. As convenient as it is, this experience changed how we’ll do business going forward.

Be careful out there, Talkbassers!

 

Probably a direct bank transfer.