Paypal, USPS, International overseas shipment

Discussion in 'Classifieds Usage Discussion and Help' started by LarryR, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. LarryR


    Feb 2, 2003
    Los Angeles

    Per Paypal: if shipping from US48 to overseas, DO NOT use USPS. Use UPS, DHL or Fedex. Why? USPS does not provide proof-of-delivery. The other carriers do. Why does it matter?

    Well, in my case, a TB'er in Ireland wanted a pedal of mine. My ad say's US48 only. I acquiesced after heavy prodding. He said it was so simple. He does it all the time. Ship the cheapest way, fill out the customs form, mark it as a gift and undervalue it down to $ 40.00. I did everything he asked. 4 weeks later I get a note from Paypal saying they've refunded his money because he never received the item. Paypal deducted the money from my account. Paypal's rule: If a Buyer requests a refund due to non-delivery, Seller must prove delivery. If Seller cannot, Seller is financially liable! As I said above, since USPS will not provide P.O.D., Seller is caught in the middle. SOL!

    It took me 1 week, 5 uploads of information to Paypal's resolution center, multiple phone calls, and several F-bombs to eventually get Paypal to cave in and reverse the debit.

    Of course maybe there's a big scam going on. Anyone outside of the US can buy something, use Paypal, and pray to God the Seller uses USPS! Then the Buyer (who received the item) can put in a claim to Paypal that they didn't. Paypal gives them a full refund. A double dipper!!! If anyone wants to know who the buyer was, PM me.
  2. Man, that sucks and I feel the pain. I also had an awful transaction through ebay. This guy from australia gave me a wrong address and then proceeded to tell ebay that I had marked down a different address than what his actual address was. Ebay believed the buyer. Ebay refunded him the $ and ebay now wants me to refund the complete $. Of course, ebay has already taken out most of what the item was sold for.

    Worse of all I have not received my pedal back from australia. I lost both the $ and the pedal. In fact, I know the user has it because he uses the same ebay and gearpage username and he snapped a picture of his pedalboard. ****ing bastard. I also have the username if anyone wants his.

    BTW..I was also using USPS.
  3. LarryR


    Feb 2, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Double sucks! In my case, I don't know if they buyer has the pedal or not. Maybe it's late in showing up? Hurricane Irene and other storms may be the cause for me receiving my Streamliner a full 18 days after it was shipped from Virginia. 18 days is a long time from VA to Los Angeles. Again, via USPS. Not sure but, my gut says it's ok to expose names on Talkbass. It's not. ~Mod.

    If I was the buyer, I'd also contact Paypal as my only resort to get resolution, so I understand his situation. However, he did lie to Paypal and Me when he said "I tried to contact you, but got no reply". THAT was a lie. That was a public statement about my character. Bottom line: my beef is mostly with USPS, and then Paypal for their strong-arm tactics. In your case, can you show proof of the buyer providing you a wrong address? Do you have the customs form# which IS trackable on the USPS site? This at least shows proof you sent the item.
  4. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    pm me the user's name, and i'll investigate.
  5. LarryR


    Feb 2, 2003
    Los Angeles
    John, faux pas. mea culpa. etc.etc.
  6. SVE


    Dec 20, 2010
    Well, doesn't having a tracking # considered proof? That's why I track through USPS; I thought the fact that it said delivered was proof enough?
  7. LarryR


    Feb 2, 2003
    Los Angeles
    SVE, I'm talking Intl, not domestic. Per my chat with USPS they do not provide POD. Once it leaves the country it's out their hands. Do you have a diff experience? If so, please share.
  8. Yeah I assumed that the international customs number was actually semi-trackable with USPS. I was always able to see when it entered the country at least.
  9. LarryR


    Feb 2, 2003
    Los Angeles
    I can't even see that, UNLESS it's still in the US which I doubt. Here's what I see:
    Tracker#: LC182914402
    US First Class Mail International,
    Acceptance: August 03, 2011, 1:26pm, LOSANGELES, CA90046
  10. SVE


    Dec 20, 2010
    Well, it's usually in US. I'm about do my first international deal, but I'm shipping it to this guys brother in law in NY, and then he's shipping it to the Philippines. So I have a message confirming that he wanted me to ship it to his brothers so once delivery is confirmed at the address in NY I should be home free correct?
  11. LarryR


    Feb 2, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Based on what you said, if your committment is to get it to NY, you should be fine. I suggest you call Paypal though. If someone says your committment is fulfilled, get their name. Good luck with it.
  12. 8_finger


    Jun 1, 2002
    Baltimore, MD
    When I ship packages to friends and family to Croatia (Europe), I use USPS express mail. It has decent tracking and $100 insurance is included. So you kind of have proof of delivery, although it is not a signature.

    I had tried the cheapest USPS package mailing method and I had nothing but bad experiences with it.

    It is a bit more expensive, but I do not ship any other way, family or not.
  13. RichSnyder

    RichSnyder Always groove.... Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    Columbia, Md
    PayPal requires you to ship to the buyer's verified shipping address. If you ship to a third party and it "disappears" you're out the money and the item.
  14. SVE


    Dec 20, 2010
    Well... The guy had 4 or so deals already... I also sent him a list of rules he was agreeing to when he sent the payment. His spelling was good, his feedback was good, and he had like 300+ posts... Well I'm banking on him being a good person I guess..
  15. A-Step-Towards

    A-Step-Towards Supporting Member

    Nov 16, 2009
    Los Angeles California
    I know your not suppose to use gift method on tb , but had you used gift method with a international buyer would this protect you from them being able to get the money back?
  16. SVE


    Dec 20, 2010
    you could do that or USPS money order. I mean as long as your an honest person and actually send it tracked and insured there's nothing to worry about. People tend to back away from these methods because scamming usually occurs.
  17. David Wilson

    David Wilson Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Lower Westchester, NY
    But it also removes all protection from the buyer, and that's why you CANNOT insist on gift option in TB classifieds.
  18. guy n. cognito

    guy n. cognito Secret Agent Member Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Nashville, TN
    Lesson to be learned here: when a seller asks you to lie on government forms, you then have clear proof that you're dealing with someone of less than stellar character.
  19. Howlin' Hanson

    Howlin' Hanson Lighter cabs, please. Supporting Member

    Sep 3, 2007
    Austin TX
    I am a retired mailing requirements clerk from USPS. There are only three types of USPS service which requires a signature at delivery:

    1) Registered Mail--4 pound weight limit, and limited to less than $30.00 coverage (Canada a bit higher).

    2) Intl Express Mail--70 pounds to most destinations. Can be insured up to $5000; $100 is automatic. Size limits vary by country. Not all countries can recieve IEM.

    3) Insured Parcel Post--same as above. Fewer countries allow insurance, due to reciprocal agreements not being in place. Weight and size limits vary.

    The Express is handled under contract by DHL or some other vendor, and proof of delivery can be verified failry easily, but (at least they used to) require that a claim be filed. Be advised that Registered and Insured Parcel Post have the signature collected by the foreign postal administration, most of whom do not store records electronically. An inquiry must be made and a file search be done. Claims can take 6 weeks or longer.

    Here's a link: - International Mail Manual
    These regulations have to be read in conjunction with the country lists posted on PM me if you have questions, and I will see if I can help
  20. LarryR


    Feb 2, 2003
    Los Angeles
    THANK YOU Howlin' Hanson! This confirms my situation.