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pedlal / preamp / poweramp... how does THIS rig go together?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ::::BASSIST::::, Jun 15, 2005.


  1. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Alright, so I managed to get my hands on a rent-to-own sabddi and I want to hook it up to my Fishman Pro Platinum Preamp (which funny enough I am using as a pre) and my stewart Pro Reference 1000.

    I assume since I am using the fishman as a pre the order should go:

    bass > sabbdi > fishman > stewart > schroeder mini 12+

    I know that i could skip the fishman and use sabddi as a pre (at least its one of the newer ones even if it is a rental), but i want to use the nice eq on the fishman to add the mids that i like.

    I have read that the sabddi can add noise to a rig (while the fishman is pretty quiet) and is best used thru the effects loop. The fishman doesnt have an effects loop. It has a balanced xlr output, an unbalanced 1/4 output, and a unbalanced tuner/send output.

    Is there a way i can plug a sabddi into the fishman that would reduce any noise the sabddi might contribute?

    Would it be better to use the sabddi as the preamp?:

    bass > fishman > sabddi > stewart > mini 12+

    I am trying to get the least amount of unwanted noise but with the greatest amount of signal to send to the stewart. The fishman's xlr gives 30db signal output. I know that the sabddi xlr can be used as well but i dont know what its output is.

    What is the best way to hook all this up together to produce good results?

    thanks! :)
     
  2. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    best method is to try both ways and see which you like better. Of course if one or the other units introduce noise into the signal, placing the other preamp after it will amplify that noise. That said, i use a sans amp bass driver all the time live before my preamp, and i've never noticed an appreciable amount of noise.
     
  3. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    I checked the manual, the XLR output is actually spec'd at -32dBV to -6dBV. That may be too wimpy to fully drive your Stewart, about which I do not know the specs. The 1/4" output is hotter, and may be a better choice. A 1 foot unbalanced cable shouldn't generally create noise problems.

    In any case, I'm with IvanMike, just try both ways and go with what sounds better. :cool:
     
  4. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    How is that specified?

    If "-32 dBV to -6 dBV" (0.025 to 0.5 volt, BTW) refers to the nominal signal level, the peaks are likely to be 10 to 20 dB hotter, which could result in enough oomph to drive the power amp.
     
  5. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    Right you are, and the spec is for nominal level, not peak as I inferred. :cool:

    However, the Fishman manual still recommends using the 1/4" unbalanced out to drive a power amp, and using the XLR one into mike level inputs (implied, as they mention mixers or a DI feed). That 1/4" output is spec'd as being 9dB hotter than the XLR one, BTW.
     
  6. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Yes, I agree—+9 dB will give more signal to work with, while the lesser signal would be fine for going into a mixer input. You can always turn the amp gain down!
     
  7. Kael

    Kael Supporting Member

    Dec 26, 2004
    Oklahoma City
    I've never tried daisy chaining my Fishman with another pre, so yep, try it both ways. How hot is the output on the new SABDDI by the way?

    edit: remember that the "Clip" light comes on way before actual clip occurs. The manual intself recommends that you set it where the clip light comes on during regular use when you dig in. If it doesn't ever light up, then most likely your Fishman won't be putting out enough to drive any power amp.
     
  8. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Here is the reply to the inquiry I sent to Fishman about it being powerful enought to drive a poweramp:

    Good Morning Torin:

    Thanks for your inquiry. The Platinum will work very effectively as a preamp slaved with a power amp. The XLR output specs are:

    -30dBu to -6dBu (600ohm)

    I hope this answers your questions...S

    Scott
    Repair Coordinator/Tech Support
    Fishman Transducers

    This has been cut & pasted right out of the pdf manual:

    Nominal Output Levels and Impedances
    Amp Out:: -20dBu to +10dBu
    tuner/Send Out: -14 dBu to + 10 dBu
    XLR Out : -30 dBu to -6 dBu

    XLR (BALANCED) OUT
    Plug a standard mic cable from the XLR out into a PA or recording console.

    It seems to me both the tech guy (scott) and the manual indicate that the xlr is the better output to a poweamp. Unless I am missing something?
     
  9. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    Oops, looks like your specs are a bit different than the ones I found on the website. Is your preamp different from the current Pro EQ Platinum? That's the one I was referring to, my bad if that's not what you have.

    In any event, the specs you quoted make an even stronger case for using the 1/4" output, since your specs put it at 16dB hotter than the XLR output. You do understand that levels at - are lower than those at + when comparing dB levels referenced like dBu, dBV, etc, right?

    When they say "PA", I'm reading mixing board, not power amp. The diagrams in the manual I saw reinforce that as well. Just try it both ways and see what you get. I suspect you'll hear a very noticeable difference :cool:
     
  10. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    hmmm... that's weird. Why does the tech from fishman, who should know this stuff very well, say use the xlr output?

    i will try both and see what happens.
     
  11. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Well, he probably means that you can use the XLR output for driving a power amp, not necessarily that it's better to use than the 1/4".
     
  12. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    okay.


    Stewarts specs say 11lbs for this unit and it is very well known that these poweramps weigh 11lbs. So why does mine weigh 14?

    I know its no big deal; it just kind of bugs me as one of the key factors why i bought this was for the low weight. A 14lb amp plus preamp and cables is going to weigh about 17lbs, in which case i would have seriously considered an eden 500 or something which is all one unit.

    I dont drive so weight is a key factor for me.

    I get try the whole rig (w/o sansamp which i havent rented yet) tonight. I hope it sounds good!
     
  13. SteveC

    SteveC Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2004
    North Dakota
    I was tired of hauling power amps and preamps. I had a very nice Avalon U5 and QSC PLX 1202 in a 4 space. Even with a lighter amp it's still more than I wanted to haul around.

    I went to an Eden WT-550 and am VERY happy. Great tone, 20 pounds, plenty of power, great EQ section. That and my Bergie HT112 and I'm good to go for any gig.