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People currently using Acme cabs. How about with loud bands

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by embellisher, Jan 4, 2003.


  1. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    I know a couple of years ago, Acme cabs were one of the hottest on the market. I also know that a lot of people stopped using them because they weren't loud enough.

    As many of you know, my rig got stolen and I am needing to put together a new one.

    I am not interested in the Low B4, it is too heavy to be of any use to me.

    The low prices of the Low B2, the weight, and the frequency response are all very attractive to me.

    But I wonder if this cabinet is anywhere near loud enough to play in a band with distorted guitars.

    What about using two of them? How much would that increase the sensitivity? And how many watts will each speaker need, from an experienced user's point of view?
     
  2. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    why dont you break out the credit card and find out? andy offers a 2 week trial just for that purpose.

    but be careful, i think Funky Carnivore blew out two B2's cause he wanted to make them louder.

    in my own experiences, i had a hard time cutting thru in my r&b/soul outfit. but if you have a preamp with a powerful EQ like my Aguilar DB680, you shouldnt have a problem. you can EQ you're B2 in amazing, pretzel like ways to cut like a knife. if not, then i'd shy away from them.
     
  3. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    joker,

    I will eventually have a Demeter pre, but that will probably be several months down the road. For now, it will be an inexpensive used pre and at least an 800 watt (used)power amp.
     
  4. j.s.basuki

    j.s.basuki Supporting Member

    May 14, 2000
    asia/australia
    I have both Acme Low B 2 and Wayne Jones 2x10
    and like them both. Acme is small and light weight, while WJ is slightly bigger and 20 pct heavier.
    WJ can handle higher output like 800 watts and very loud, more full range and Hi Fi.
    Acme has more 'oldfashion' darker sound, in a way I like it too.
    Both are sold factory direct. WJ cost alot more USD 1250:( but it is worth it. I use 2 of them.
     
  5. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    I don't know if an 800 watt amp will give you what you're looking for with the Acme cabs. I think that 500 watts minimum per cab is recommended for the B-2s.
     
  6. ganttbos

    ganttbos The Professor Supporting Member

    Dec 18, 2001
    New Orleans area
    Jeff,
    I used (and still own) two low B2's that I ran with a Demeter pre and a Crown Power Tech III at 750 watts/side into the two 4-ohm Acmes. Great sound but lacking cut in a loud R&B jam. The Acmes are IMO the best thing going in the weight/price/sound trade-off. I'm keeping the cabs though I'm now using two Wayne Jones 210's. Only in the loudest context are the Acmes insufficient - and one man's loud is another's not so loud. I agree with what Joker said about EQ, but if you're leaning toward the Dem, you won't have that option unless you go with the model with parametric EQ - I haven't tried that one - mine's the old 1.5 space 201.
     
  7. chucko58

    chucko58

    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    My rig is a pair of 4 ohm Low B-2s driven by a QSC RMX 1850HD power amp (600 W per cab) and a hot-rodded Carvin PB-15 preamp. I play a 5 string, and I like to hear that 31 Hz fundamental.

    I've played a few club dates with this rig and haven't had a problem getting heard in the audience. It helps that my current band's drummer has an electronic kit. I only take one cab to rehearsals since the volume is so low.

    Pairing cabs (anyone's cabs, not just Acme) gets you a 3 dB boost in efficiency. I would not want to play a gig with just one of these cabs.

    I think the key with Acme cabs is plenty of clean power. RMX amps are cheap, clean, and reliable; call Lord Valve for the best prices around, even cheaper than Carvin's DCM series!

    So far I've only strained this rig once. My old band was auditioning an EXTREMELY loud drummer. I was playing hard, and the power amp was cranked so that the clip lights were blinking on every note. The Acmes started to sound distorted, like there was more 2nd harmonic than fundamental. But I was just able to keep up with the drummer.

    My ears were ringing after that rehearsal, which was unusual with that band. Fortunately there was no permanent harm to the cabs.
     
  8. coyoteboy

    coyoteboy easy there, Ned Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2000
    Sactomato, CA
    My Acme experience differs slightly from others, mainly in the powere required to effectively drive the speaker. I'll certainly agree that they are inefficient, I ended up with 4 Low B-2's, 4ohms each, before I was done. I was driving up to all 4 with an older model Stewart PA-1000. That's approximately 250 watts per cab running all 4, and 350 watts per cab running two. I was able to take each cab to it's limit with this amp and I rarely clipped. My experience seems to be the exception as far as power requirements go, so you might not want to expect to get good volume running two cabs with 500 watts. In the end I got the Aguilar power amp, and had to change everything around (again)
     
  9. abaguer

    abaguer

    Nov 27, 2001
    Milford, NJ
    My Acme experience was good for upright and bad for electric bands that played at moderate to louder levels. There just wasn't enough cut. I switched to EA cabs and have been very happy with them. The EA cabs have a tighter bottom end IMHO.
     
  10. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    i think shoulda mentioned this before, but IMHO, the Acme B2 has become for me the BEST "1x12", you'll ever need. ;)

    most buy a 1x12 for a small, compact bass cab for on the go gigs, and most times i'll throw them in the direction of an Acme B2 for those low volume gigs where you wanna that punch for your LowB, yet low travelling weight (50 lbs).

    i'm pretty much reiterating what everyone else said here, but if you've got two blazing 50 watt Marshall halfstacks, then a single Acme B2 aint gonna do squat.

    But, two would do you justice provided you have something with a strong EQ control like my J-Retro onboard preamp, or a separate parametric. again, a powerful EQ really unlocks the beauty of these cabs, IMHO.
     
  11. abaguer

    abaguer

    Nov 27, 2001
    Milford, NJ
    I agree with joker on the 112 comment. If you're in a moderate setting the B2 sounds really good and full. It is also really portable with lots of bottom; it's only on the louder gigs that I felt I wanted something else. I still have my B1 for upright and it is a great sounding cab.
     
  12. At one point I was using a couple of 4 ohm B-2's underneath an Eden Navigator/QSC 2402 rig and while I loved the tone and the bottom end, I had a hard time cutting thru the mix both at practice and at gigs, even though it was loud enough, at least according to the drummer. But for some reason I couldn't hear myself that well. Now this probably isn't an indictment of the Acme's themselves. It could have been my EQ settings (mostly flat on the Eden; a little treble boost on the on-board preamp), but I think it was mostly trying cut thru a loud guitar and keyboards.

    Right now I'm using a Bergantino HT112 on top of a B-2 and I'm very happy with sound. I'm cutting thru quite nicely, plus the Bergie just colors the tone differently, in a nice way. Plus we have a new quieter, guitar player. I was beginning to think they didn't make 'em that way. ;)

    But I still like the B-2 on the bottom for massive low end.
     
  13. FunkySpoo

    FunkySpoo Supporting Member

    Feb 6, 2002
    I had one but at 93 spl it just wasn't loud enough. I sent it back and got 2 EA vl 210's. The VLs output is 100 spl. As you know you have to double your watts to get 3 db. Even with the three db bump you get with two cabs it just wasn't enough. But as posted above Andy gives you 2 weeks to try them. There's nothing to lose.
     
  14. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    So, it sounds like even 2 of them may not be loud enough, huh?:(
     
  15. Get 8 of them

    :D
     
  16. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    Jon,

    have you since tried using s'more drastic EQ'ing? how does it fare?
     
  17. Well no, I still have the EQ on the Nav set flat. When I use freq boosts/cuts, I tweak the knobs on the bass and then just slightly.

    Also the attenuator on the Bergie is set to -2 db, and the Acme's knobs are set to 12 o'clock (I can't remember. Is that about -6 db or so?) I messed around with the attenuators on both cab's and those settings are where they sound good to me.

    But to my ears as well as the other band members, the Bergie just cut thru the mix better as well as tone to boot.

    jokerjk, where do you have your Bergie's attenuator set? or are you still using it?
     
  18. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    I used to use a pair of Acme B2's great cab! I still have mine........but when I joined a louder band, the B2's wheren't cutting it for me, and thats with a QSC2402 and 700 watts a side:( So I moved on to Bergantinos:D the Acme cabs do sound great for moderate sound levels, and Andy Lewis is a great guy to work with!!
     
  19. NOLABASS

    NOLABASS

    Oct 16, 2002
    New Orleans
    Hey,
    I started with a Demeter 201 pre, Carvin amp, and two 4ohm B2's. Good sound, but the Carvin was only 300watts at 4 ohm (I knew that the Carvin wasn't enough, but took the cheaper route to get into the Demeter). After (just like everbody else) reading threads, I recently purchase a QSC PLX 2402 that delivers 700watts into the B2s. Much, much better. Kinda like feeding more oxygen to a fire. The cabs bloom bigger, and are more articulate, less strained. The common complaint with the Demeter is the lack of EQ cut and boost. So I got a Rane Parametric mostly to cut. Works like a charm. I'm very happy with the B2s, they will cut threw steel if you Eq properly. Being their 3-way, their is no reason you can't be heard. It's my belief that its not the B2s problem, it's Eq problems clashing with the other instruments. Loud doesn't mean heard! And theirs the added bonus of the Demeter line out making every sound man happy happy. If you need that much volumn, aren't you generally running threw the PA? I've played an SVT (vintage) for 20 years, and now play this rig, I have no problems being heard and cpmpeting with the other players. Including B3 organs, guitars,horns. I work with a B3 player that would make a B4 dance across the floor with so much volumn, that is loud man! He left comments on Acmes sight about it too. Make sure you have enough power, enough EQ cut, and the rig your looking at will do great.
     
  20. NOLABASS

    NOLABASS

    Oct 16, 2002
    New Orleans
    As a side note, one of the "selling" techniques at you local stereo store is to demo (A/B) two different stereos for the buyer. The salesman will boost the stereo he wants to sell a small amount louder than the competitor. Its a proven phenomenon the we mer mortals will perceive a slight increase in volume as "clearer," when all it is, is louder, not necessarily better.