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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by alembic76407, Jun 20, 2004.
Has anyone played this amp? and how about all the 5" speakers
Yup! EXTREMELY punchy and focused! They are absolutely, hands down, without doubt, one of the finest rigs I've ever heard! They produce incredible, earth-shaking lows and smooth highs. The Phil Jones head is perfectly matched with the cabs as they have tremendous headroom and are dead quiet.
What else can I say?
Even though I have to give credit to Phil for trying a new design, I felt that the low end was to muddy and boomey, and the high end way to "honky". Another aspect is that even though the cabs are pretty compact (I am relating to the 6B and the 9T, which I had), you need at least those 2 cabs to get an audible sound out of them. Conclusion: not my cup of tea.
Which amp were you using? I found the sound to be a little muddy when I first tried it but after a couple weeks the sound improved greatly.
I used several configurations:
Eden WT400, Demeter preamp/Stewart 1.2 power amp configuration, WW Hi Power.
Basses: Benavente Vortex 6, FBB SC 6, FBB fretless 8, and some more.
It's nice not to see another 4x10 cab. I've read other opinions about
his cabs ,but I've never heard the word boomy before. I have a host
of instruments and clarity is my only concern. I love this concept. His
cabs represent a tone that I find pleasing to my ears. I talked to a
bassist in Texas who loves the way his Bergatino cabs sounded and he
was looking for a cab to sound just like it , but smaller. Impossible, I
replied ,because nobody's going to make chicken like dear old Mother.
If you want your Fender to sound like your Rick ,you may get close with
EQ, but all cabs have a texture just like our basses. I have more than
one brand Speaker so that feel the sound a diffrent way. There is no
one sound for all of mankind. But I found a few Companies that Help me
to speak. Great work PHIL Jones!!! Al Caldwell
I'd have to concure w/ Mr. Schroeder. Nasally...was not my cup of tea either. As for the highs, the 5's didn't make it anywhere near what Phil claims on his site. I'd say you're lucky if your putting out anything over 3.5K. And these ain't no lightweight cabs either. One of my biggest complaints was the vinyl-like covering. A little brush up against it and it tears or at the least, scuffs badly. I just didn't like 'em.
Not trying to put anyone down or discredit anyone's attempt at offering new bass cab designs (rather, i applaud anyone who comes up with something new and different - especially if it sounds good!) - and i must say i've never tried these cabs - but it looks to me like the same design philosophy as bose 801's or 901's PA or home stereo speakers. lots of small drivers to achieve surface area + proper cab volume & dimensions gets you the low end.
It's really not like the Bose system. Back in the day I played bass
through 901's and 801's and you had to have the bose processor
to make up for the phasing night mares. I can respect if this isn't
the sound that agrees with you ,but it does work for me. Bose ,nor
any other bass company, has made anything like these products. I've
been buying top of the line bass gear for 35 years. I would love to know what your favorite rig is. I don't want to compare it to phils gear , I just
want to know what you found that truly pleased you.
I was very skeptical (you can probably find some posts by me that prove it), but when I tried a 9B out with an SWR750 head, which I'm not fond of, I was sold that the cab is great. It sounds great, looks great- I love watching those little speakers jump- and plays great. Two reasons why I don't have one- weight (75 pounds for a cab no bigger than a 15) and cost.
As far as needing two of them to make any noise- I shook the entire place when I played one, and it was very much louder than the SWR Goliath III 4x10 next to it.
I've been playing through a Phil Jones Briefcae for the last couple of weeks with my Bongo 5 string, 6 string Athlete ABG, and US Curbow 8 string fretless.
I'm amazed at the clarity and VOLUME from that little 2x5" configuration. Extremely transparent, and plenty of usable volume for small gigs.
I'm looking forward to trying out the bigger cabs at NAMM in July.
I was a little disappointed when I found out the weight of the cabs since I've imposed a limit of 45lbs for my cabs. But, I still think Phil Jones has achieved remarkable success with the briefcase, and I fully expect to be impressed with the larger cabs.
Al--I was actually checking out your matching 9 string hollowbody Conklins just before I saw your first post in this thread. Very nice stuff! Are you planning on being at NAMM in July?
I didn't find that to be the case, at all. What I did find is the Phil Jones cabs are designed to operate with the amps he designed, not others. When I plugged my old Fafner into it, I couldn't get great tones, but when I went back to the Phil Jones cabs, I did get great tones. These cabs are designed in such a way that you need an amp voiced for all those 5" speakers.
As for needing two cabs to get audible sound, the only thing I can think of is that each individual cab does not have a very strong ohm rating. For example, the 8T is rated at only 16 ohms and the 16B is rated at only 8 ohms.
Sadly, it is a common business practice by some bass amp manufacturers to "tune" their amps to their own brand of cabinets to make them sound the very best with their own combination.
I don't think that there are many working bassists out there who can afford ~ $3,000.00 to purchase a brand new amp, 2 cabinets without having the chance trying them out first.
Furthermore, many bassists prefer different amps, from SS, tube, to preamp/power amp configuration, and like to use their amp setups with various different cabinet brands. That's why I applaud companies like Bergantino, Epifani (Yes, I know Nick is coming out with his own amps and preamps) and others who offer cabinets that sound good with a plethora of different amps. That's just my 5 cents to it. After all, you just can't win them all.
My only experience with the bose speakers was in a buddy's home stereo (901's) and occasionally a PA that used 801's. I didn't comment on the sound of Phil's cabs specifically because I haven't had the pleasure of trying them - but I'd love the opportunity to try them out. They certainly "look good on paper"! Some of the other posts mention the weight, which I agree is a downer... all those magnets add up, i guess! I was just commenting on the fact that they use multiple small drivers, much like bose did in their speakers. I don't know about crossovers, processors, etc. (if any) in Phil's cabs, either. Merely making a purely visual comparison, that's all.
Currently I'm running an eden wt-600 bridged through a bergantino 2x10. I've owned and used swr & eden 2x10's and 4x10's a lot also. I recently took the plunge and bought a dr. bass 2x12 to toss in my rehearsal space; so far i really like it; bang for the buck, for sure.
As for single 2x10's, I really like the berg, and the eden 2x10 xlt was a powerful little cab too. Can't say what my favorite rig is; like a lot of folks on this forum, I too am constantly searching for it .
At one point i was running swr and eden 2x10's in stereo; i really liked that combination. But as i get older, i'm finding myself still looking for that ultimate one-trip-into-the-gig rig.
The eden head & berg 2x10 on a cart make for a quick load-in and setup. I guess the only way to make it even quicker (and hopefully lighter) is a combo, but i like the fact that the eden has a stereo effects loop, and most combos don't have that. Some sort of "air-head" combo might do the trick; I'd need one that was similar to the volume and output i get with my current setup but that still retained the option to bring along another cab & run stereo.
If Phil made one of his cabs (like the 16H) in a stereo configuration that only weighed 70 lbs or less, I'd be all over it!!!
Whoa...nothing like totalitarianism in the realm of bassdom! Again, I have to agree w/ Schroeder on this one. If I was told I couldn't use my favorite preamp....[the one I know inside and out and know that I can dial a great tone in, regardless of the room, AND love the sound it gives to the board], I don't think I'd even remotely consider tacking on an additional $1000 for HIS new preamp or $10,000 for HIS "world's most powerful tube amp"! I firmly believe if you make a decent box, it should soud good with ANY decent amplification system.
there seams to be a lot of interest here for the Phil jones stuff. I personally think it is a great rig if you are doing smaller to medium level gigs.
I have a full rig for sale:
M-500 bass amp: $1250
6T bass cab : $600
9B bass cab : $800
i can give discounts if you purchase multiple items. The head is only a few weeks old and is in MINT condition, the cabs are in excellent condition aith one small nick on the 6T. Interested in Phil Jones...save hundreds of dollars with my rig.
There are so many different components that make up the the total package of a working (gigging) system...and I just commented on one aspect of that in the previous post. So, I'm using the prompt of: "I just want to know what truly pleased you." to give an example of why totalitarianism shouldn't be tolerated in the bass world any more than in government. Ok, example of a system that I thought was absolutely wonderful: The Bag End ELF system. I'm telling you I have yet to hear a better package - and this is going back 10 years! Ron Wickersham, THE guru of Alembic (who doesn't play bass by the way) engineered this unit. Now, I've had dinner with the man, and let me tell you...it's difficult to have a straight conversation with him, 'cause he's just in another realm. Anyway, this system had like 64 dip switches, a special processor for extend low freq., cables...my God...special input connectors and output connectors...and the list goes on and on! As much as I hated to part with it, the thought of one bad cable screwing up the system was keeping me up at night and I had to dump it. And the point is...the mixing and matching as well as the practical application of gear is what makes up our creative tonal palette and should'nt been hemmed in by having to use one particular configuration.
I have a full rig for sale:
You may be right...if you like the tone. But then again if you're doing small to medium sized gigs wouldn't you be better with a system that weighed less than 120+ pounds (6T & 9B combined)? (Oh yeah, be sure to save your money for the "world's most powerful tube amp" to go along with the cabinets........anyone have $10,000 I can borrow? Ha!
Al--I was actually checking out your matching 9 string hollowbody Conklins just before I saw your first post in this thread. Very nice stuff! Are you planning on being at NAMM in July?[/QUOTE]
I'll be at the summer namm at the Benavente Booth! Hopefully see you there! forever smilin and giglin al caldwell
Ron was also one of the designers of the Grateful Dead's "point source" sound system.
The bass system was 36-15" cabs driven by 1200 solid-state watts.