Pickups out of phase?

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by nukes_da_bass, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. nukes_da_bass

    nukes_da_bass Inactive

    Feb 19, 2006
    west suburban boston
    I played a gig last night with a fairly new bass that has a few issues.
    The most glaring issue is uneven frets- and i already have an appointment with the Mouradians for fret leveling polishing dressing etc in three weeks.

    The other issue is the pickups. It has an MM at the neck and a Jazz at the bridge.
    I noticed a HUGE drop in treble output for the first two sets. Blamed the amp, kept tweaking my mids and highs on the 400+ which only helped a little.
    By the third set i tweaked the bass. I know the fret level is part of the problem- but something weird happens with the J pickup.
    Right before the J pickup is cranked, it gets this "out of phase" sound where the bass sounds underwater. In home practice this is simple, when i find that spot on the pot i dial away from it!

    The temp solution last night right before third set was dialing the J pickup WAY back, almost shutting it off.
    After this the MM pickup sounded full range!!! I got back all my highs and mids and could hear myself through the mix. Third set had lots of funk so this was important. Tower of power james brown etc...
    Im gonna have the Mouradians check the wiring and pickup height , etc

    Anyone else ever have a bass act like this? This is my first MM/J config. Passive no preamp.
    Nukes
     
  2. Jazz Ad

    Jazz Ad Mi la ré sol

    You couldn't think of a more unbalanced pickup arrangement.
    If the J is single coil, I can't think of a way to blend them properly unless you split the MM.
     
  3. nukes_da_bass

    nukes_da_bass Inactive

    Feb 19, 2006
    west suburban boston
    Cool thanks for the reply!
    What about Laklands that have the opposite setup with J in the neck and MM in the bridge? Does that setup change things?
    I can get the Mouradians to install a coil splitter thats a pretty easy fix.
     
  4. Andyman001

    Andyman001 moderation must be taken with a grain of salt

    Feb 11, 2010
    S/E Idaho
    Usually, a phase issue causes a volume drop, not a loss of highs. but the J pu could be "loading" the mm. How does it sound with just the J pu soloed?
     
  5. nukes_da_bass

    nukes_da_bass Inactive

    Feb 19, 2006
    west suburban boston
    J soloed sounds anemic to me, but to be honest thats how all bridge J pickups sound to me when soloed.
    When Mouradian did the intake he said the pickups were installed at uneven height and i THINK he said to even output that the jazz pick up needed to be raised, in the MM pick up needed to be lowered.
    The good news about the bass neck is that it straight as an arrow with a fully functional truss rod. if you knew the builder in question, Tom Martinson, you would know that this is good news LOL!
    Right now I'm into this bass for $300 and I'm okay with being into it for another $300...the woodworking is a piece of art and it's very ergonomic and it plays like butter!
    You guys are very helpful about pickup configuration! although I've been playing for 30 years I'm still kind of slow on the uptake about a lot of the stuff and thanks for the help.
     
  6. uOpt

    uOpt

    Jul 21, 2008
    Boston, MA, USA
    "Underwater" sounds like loss of treble. Simple out of phase will actually increase treble. It mostly kills long harmonics on the bass.

    I think you need a bit more diagnostic effort.
     
  7. tbplayer59

    tbplayer59

    Jan 20, 2013
    You're ALWAYS going to get some sort of phase cancellation on a two pickup instrument when both pickups are on. It's the nature of the beast and what gives the Jazz it's signature sound. The j pickup is going to cancel some frequencies from the MM, making it sound thinner.
     
  8. mmbongo

    mmbongo I have too many basses. Supporting Member

    The Lakland setup is balanced perfectly, as is my Warwick Streamer Jazzman with the J/MM. Of course with both of these, there is an active preamp installed.
     
  9. uOpt

    uOpt

    Jul 21, 2008
    Boston, MA, USA
    Hmmm, hold on a second.

    Are you mixing active and passive pickups? What kind of pots do you have in there, anyway?
     
  10. nukes_da_bass

    nukes_da_bass Inactive

    Feb 19, 2006
    west suburban boston
    You guys all have me curious so later today when I get off work I'm going to take the back cover off look at the wiring and pots and I might even take the pickup covers off. Martinson puts beautiful wood pick up covers over his pick ups so you have no idea what's under the hood, but I might give it a shot!
     
  11. Does it have a battery?
     
  12. nukes_da_bass

    nukes_da_bass Inactive

    Feb 19, 2006
    west suburban boston
    Passive- but im going to doublecheck.
     
  13. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Happy Cynic Supporting Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Inland Northwest
    Endorsing Artist: Turnstyle Switch
    If your current J is a single coil, I recommend swapping it out for a split-coil. A lot of companies make them -- Nordstrand, Bartolini, Fender, etc. I have Fender Super 55 split-coils, and I love them.

    I don't know offhand how the output would balance with the MM pickup you have, but I am completely certain it will help with your tone issues.
     
  14. nukes_da_bass

    nukes_da_bass Inactive

    Feb 19, 2006
    west suburban boston
    ImageUploadedByTalkBass1374505555.485251.jpg

    These are the guts. Looks like pots and wires and one resistor- all solder joints look unbroken.
    The suggestion of a stacked jazz was a good one! Makes since to have two humbuckers working in conjunction.

    Going to Cape Cod for three nights. No bass :(. Gonna defer to Mouradian my tech in three weeks for pickup options!
     
  15. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Happy Cynic Supporting Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Inland Northwest
    Endorsing Artist: Turnstyle Switch
    Unless you were responding to someone else, I recommended split-coil humbuckers, not stacked humbuckers.`
     
  16. nukes_da_bass

    nukes_da_bass Inactive

    Feb 19, 2006
    west suburban boston
    So that would make the pickup essentially a P in jazz housing? You are right i mis-read your post sorry!
     
  17. iiipopes

    iiipopes Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    +1 Add Lindy Fralin split coil and DiMarzio J & UltraJazz to that list.
     
  18. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Happy Cynic Supporting Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Inland Northwest
    Endorsing Artist: Turnstyle Switch
    More or less. This is what they look like inside:

    13884a63-10d3-49a4-b2bd-367356e066a5_zpsa5cae32e.jpg
     
  19. It's a good design but don't think it will sound like a P if that's what you're after, it won't.