Place For Originals Artists To Discuss Their Craft

Discussion in 'Suggestion Box' started by Kro, Jul 8, 2019.


  1. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Posting this as a follow up to the post here.

    There has been some discussion as of late, around if there's ever been any discussion on including a TB section dedicated to creative aspects associated with being a bassist such as crafting creative bass parts or arrangement, and sharing original creative work.

    It doesn't seem like there's really an appropriate place for bassists that create original content to hang out and discuss their craft - especially if that work is being done prior to a recording (which is when the majority of it takes place).
     
  2. TemplesOfSyrinx

    TemplesOfSyrinx

    Sep 8, 2013
    Florida
    No response yet?
     
  3. TonyP-

    TonyP- Excuse me but you have your I-IV-V in my II-V-I Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 21, 2003
    Boston Mass
    A-Designs Mike Lull GK Tsunami Cables GHS Strings RMI Basswitch Nordstrand Pickups Darkglass
    I would be up for that...
     
    TemplesOfSyrinx likes this.
  4. TemplesOfSyrinx

    TemplesOfSyrinx

    Sep 8, 2013
    Florida
    I'm assuming you have heard nothing back Kro?
     
  5. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Nothing yet, but sometimes the suggestion box works in mysterious ways.
     
    TemplesOfSyrinx likes this.
  6. TemplesOfSyrinx

    TemplesOfSyrinx

    Sep 8, 2013
    Florida
    Should we break out our Ouija boards?
     
  7. kesslari

    kesslari Groovin' with the Fusion Cats Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2007
    Santa Cruz Mtns, California
    Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
    Interesting idea. Right now that content would rightly go in either "Misc" or "Band Management".
    @Kro @TemplesOfSyrinx how would this forum be differentiated?
    What would be "on topic" and what would be "off topic"? I'm legitimately asking and looking for input. It helps me understand the idea and how to scope it.

    Is this about songwriting?
    Writing or arranging parts for original songs?
    What about writing or arranging new parts for existing (cover) songs?
    Would "I played a stuttered eighth note groove on Mustang Sally" fit here?
    "My guitarist won't let me play the parts I write"?

    Music scoring tools - could fit here (creative tools) or in "Tablature and Notation"
    Same with DAW's (here or "Recording Gear and Equipment")

    What are some sample topics/threads you'd want to post?
     
  8. TemplesOfSyrinx

    TemplesOfSyrinx

    Sep 8, 2013
    Florida
    I'll have to think about your questions a bit. I'm on my way out the door to rehearsal.

    I was thinking more about original artists as opposed to cover bands. Not that I dislike cover bands, I do both. I am thinking about all the work that goes into writing, arranging, recording, mixing, mastering, distributing, promoting, performing, etc and that's where the seed for my TalkBass Member Projects Spotify playlist thread came from. The playlist itself is amazing so far. Many different genres, many different points of inspiration. At least to me. I like having all the genres mixed into one list, that way myself and others are exposed to music that maybe we don't normally listen to when we listen to the playlist. I tend to just put it on shuffle.

    I have to head out. I'll think more about your question and post again.
     
    kesslari likes this.
  9. TemplesOfSyrinx

    TemplesOfSyrinx

    Sep 8, 2013
    Florida
    To start @kesslari I sometimes feel interesting discussions get lost under such thread titles as "Misc" or "Band Management". I was thinking having a separate title such as "TB Member Original Music Corner" or the like. Within that we can have sub discussions about "Making the sausage" if someone is interested in that granular of a level of song writing, production, etc.

    Maybe a section such as the thread I started to help bring the final product to others in the forum as well as hopefully outside the forums. Between Apple Music, Spotify, Deezer, Amazon, Google Play Music, Tidal, YouTube, etc their are many ways I would like to help everyone get their music to a wider audience. A place that TB members who do work with original projects have a place to hang their hats.

    On topic to me would be anything that promotes the growth of the forum in the area of original music. Off topic discussions would still be the same as now. No politics of course. I come hear to get away from that stuff, lol.

    Songwriting, arranging, writing & arranging of new parts for a cover of an existing song, my guitarist won't let me play the parts I write, Music scoring tools, DAW's and recording gear and equipment would all be acceptable topics for discussion within.

    Let me think somemore about examples of topics/threads I would also want.

    @Kro do you have anything?
     
  10. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    I want to put a little bit more thought into this response than my typical stream of consciousness post. Will reply shortly! :)
     
    TemplesOfSyrinx likes this.
  11. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    I suppose that misc. would indeed now be the most appropriate section, but that is only by default as currently nothing fits better. I actually don't see much overlap with Band Management - that forum currently does what it does very well, but discussing the creative aspects of music isn't really one of them... unless the issue are creative differences of band members.

    The difference is primarily that it would be a community hub focused on the creative elements of being a bassist. It would consolidate and concentrate some of the posts that may currently crop up in a current forum like recordings (such as, what do you think of this bass part), but are overshadowed by discussions about a new release or classic recordings that are being dissected or debated. IMO the likelihood of posts finding the right audience for discussion would increase.

    On-topic discussions, to me, would be anything that focuses on creation. Not just recordings, but creating music. Examples would include:
    • Songwriting - general and bass oriented
    • Arrangement
    • Sharing and discussing anything created from short basslines to full songs and albums
    • Promoting original music created by members
    Just a note on the originals vs. covers thing. As we all know, there is a ton of gray area surrounding coveres, and also we're all aware that covers can be tackled in original ways. In my books, if there is a creative element to what is being done - something that somebody adapted or modified and put lots of thought into the differences, that counts, even if it's a cover.

    I think that there also is potentially room for discussing existing recordings, but the focus should be more about dissecting them and learning from them in an educational way as it pertains to song-craft.

    Kind of hard to think of off topic discussions, as I think they'd be relatively obvious given the scope, but maybe that's just because I have an idea in my head of what it should be! :p

    To address the specific examples you provided:

    • Is this about songwriting? Yes
    • Writing or arranging parts for original songs? Definitely
    • What about writing or arranging new parts for existing (cover) songs? If it involves being creative, then 100%.
    • Would "I played a stuttered eighth note groove on Mustang Sally" fit here? While my goal is to be inclusive, this seems too specific, and seems to me like it might be better suited for "Theory". Now if they asked: My band is turning Mustang Sally into a ballad... but I'm having a hard time transitioning from the pre-chorus bassline I've written into the chorus.... now we're in business!
    • "My guitarist won't let me play the parts I write"? Band management.
    • Music scoring tools - could fit here (creative tools) or in "Tablature and Notation" - Tabulature and notation seems to me to mostly be about finding parts to existing works. Tools to aid in composition I think would be valid topics, especially if one is looking specifically for the perspectives of artists that compose their own works.
    • Same with DAW's (here or "Recording Gear and Equipment") - These questions may come up, if they revolve around music creation: "what is the best DAW for songwriting?" otherwise I'd say it would be left to Recording Gear. I would expect these topics to be rare.
    Sample posts:
    • I have a bass part that works for the song, but it's repetitive. How can I make it more interesting without ruining the groove?
    • Thoughts on fade outs - are they always just a lazy option to end a song?
    • This is my latest part/song/album and I wanted to discuss it/share!
    • My drummer and I are hearing the groove differently on this part - suggestions to change the part to have it lock in better?
    • How many pitch modulations is too many?
    • My band has written a song with a quadruple verse. Any suggestions to keep things interesting?
    • What do you think of this bass part?
    • Is this song too long?
    • I've created a countermelody but our guitarist is concerned it's stepping on his toes, is it?
    Some of the above may have some elements of recordings or band management, but they all revolve around the creative process more than a recording or band drama.

    OK, I know that's a long post, but hopefully it provides some food for thought! Please let me know if I can provide any additional clarification from my points of view!
     
    Oddly and TemplesOfSyrinx like this.
  12. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    @TemplesOfSyrinx , I purposefully wanted to compose my own thoughts before going back and reading through your posts. My thoughts on some of your points below :):

    I definitely think that these would be valid topics as well as they pertain to TB created music. Again, recordings would seem like a good space to discuss things like... recording (duh!), mixing, and mastering, but so much of that thread is really just about discussing existing recordings that these types of questions can get lost.

    @TemplesOfSyrinx , in reading your second post, I'm trying to figure out the best way to sum up why something might be more appropriate to discuss here than in the other forums, and I think maybe I can get close with this example.

    Let's assume that a bassist wants to discuss his thoughts on trying a set of flats with his Rickenbacker.

    If the discussion focuses mostly on the strings, and the goal is for string experts to weigh in, then perhaps the Strings forum is the right place for it to be discussed.

    If the discussion focuses mostly on the bass, and the goal is for Rickenbacker experts to weigh in, then perhaps the Basses forum is the right place for it to be discussed.

    For the section we're proposing, if the topic pertains to original music created, or that is in the process of being created by a TB member, and the goal is to discuss said topic with other original music creators, then I'd say it's a valid discussion. With that being said, as with anything, obviously some things may be a better fit than others.
     
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  13. Basshappi

    Basshappi

    Feb 12, 2007
    Tucson,AZ
    I would be very interested to see this come together.
     
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  14. TemplesOfSyrinx

    TemplesOfSyrinx

    Sep 8, 2013
    Florida
    Excellent post! Thank you so much.
     
  15. kesslari

    kesslari Groovin' with the Fusion Cats Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2007
    Santa Cruz Mtns, California
    Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
    Oddly likes this.
  16. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    I'd like to prevent that as much as possible, as I'm sure would everybody else - as that most definitely isn't the intent.

    "Creating Original Music" definitely isn't a bad option, I'd like to give it some more thought and will report back if I have any other ideas, or if nothing better comes to mind. :)
     
  17. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Looking at existing forum titles for inspiration, most seem to be pretty short, sweet, and to the point.

    I wonder if something like the (I think) made up word "Songcraft" might work. With a very rough description along the lines of:

    Discussing the creation of original music, and member generated original content.

    Certainly open to other options and suggestions, but
    I'm hoping that as long as it's more about the process, and less of a club for original musicians, hopefully any covers vs. originals backlash can be prevented. Besides, there is already an Original Musician Club thread elsewhere... and heck that could be one of many threads in this section as well... it just likely shouldn't be the title for that specific reason. :)

    "Share your original music" would also be a valid thread under Songcraft, I think.

    Discussing the promotion, and the more business end of original music might also work well from a thread level. But through that lens... maybe "Creating Original Music" actually does a better job - as promotion is part of the process of "Creating Original Music", but not necessarily Songcraft...

    I think I need to sleep on it! :p

    Regardless, @kesslari thank you for considering this, and for all the thought you've put into it so far. It really is greatly appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  18. hrodbert696

    hrodbert696 Moderator Staff Member

    I can see a logic in having a "Composing and Arranging" forum. I think right now, yes, the place I expect people to post original music is in Recordings, but that's likely to be only after a piece of work reaches the studio, and that forum also features a lot of people discussing existing recordings by known artists rather than their own work. Otherwise people tend to comment or ask about how to create a bass line or how to arrange a song under Technique or Music Theory. The only downside would be overload - how many different fora do we really want in the menu?
     
    Kro likes this.
  19. TonyP-

    TonyP- Excuse me but you have your I-IV-V in my II-V-I Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 21, 2003
    Boston Mass
    A-Designs Mike Lull GK Tsunami Cables GHS Strings RMI Basswitch Nordstrand Pickups Darkglass
    Hello all,

    I spoke to Paul about this suggestion and besides the compistional side things I was also thinking of the following.

    Users could share the following
    -Media
    -Touring info
    -Press info
    etc...

    Something you tend to find more in original acts then cover bands.

    I even offered to moderate it. I would like to draw more working professionals to the site and a section like that might help.

    Prehaps give a more positive boost to the bass playing community.
     
    kesslari, Oddly and Kro like this.
  20. thetraintomars

    thetraintomars

    Apr 9, 2019
    I would find something like this very interesting and insightful. I’ve learned a lot from TB, but a good bitof content is more relevant to the cover and metal players.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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