Playing on old old blues songs?

Discussion in 'Double Bass Pedagogy [DB]' started by MichelD, Sep 20, 2022.

  1. MichelD

    MichelD

    May 19, 2014
    A couple of the guitar players in my old-guys jazz-blues jam group love the vintage old bluesmen like Tampa Red, Charley Patton and Son House.

    Now playing along with them, I feel like I am cheating playing the same old Willie Dixon 1-3-5-6-b7-6-5-3 Chicago blues bass line. It seems too modern. Most of those musicians recorded solo but we play it with violin, mandolin, dobro and two guitars and bass.

    I try everything I know, Root-Five, simple 1-3-5 parts, 1-5-6-5 Duck dunn style, etc., but I'm looking for tips.

    What would a bass viol player of the day play to accompany Charley Patton in 1929 or Tampa Red in 1932?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2022
  2. bherman

    bherman Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2009
    Grand Junction, CO
    Real simple and thumpy, but I'd like to think that if the guys playing bass back then had instruments like ours, they'd be be playing more like us!
     
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  3. John Chambliss

    John Chambliss Supporting Member

    Nov 11, 2005
    Memphis, TN
    I play some old delta blues in that vein. Sometimes I pull out my bow and try to play tuba lines.
     
  4. MichelD

    MichelD

    May 19, 2014
    My instrument would have been at least 40 years old in 1930.
     
  5. bherman

    bherman Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2009
    Grand Junction, CO
    I mean the setup - most of us using steel strings and pickups with planed finger boards
     
  6. MichelD

    MichelD

    May 19, 2014
    Okay, fair enough.
     
  7. Stewie

    Stewie

    Jul 3, 2013
    Near Boston
    I get pretty close to that thump with Jargar lights and a Krivo pickup. Turn down the treble knob and play much quieter than you feel is right. 1 5 1 5 1 5
     
  8. ProbablyTooLoud

    ProbablyTooLoud Supporting Member

    Aug 1, 2020
    Atlanta
    This is a bit later, but I think the bass on this track is a good template.
    The bass player even steps out a little in two or three spots.

     
  9. AGCurry

    AGCurry Supporting Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    St. Louis
    The wonderful bassist here is Ernest "Big" Crawford.

    There is no bass in delta blues from before circa 1950. Typically, the guitar plays a bass line... so you're not going to achieve real "authenticity" accompanying with bass.

    You are right that the 1-3-5-6/7 patterns from more urban blues styles don't fit these early delta blues very well unless you want an "updated" sound. The best thing you can do is emphasize rhythm and keep note choices simple.
     
  10. Stewie

    Stewie

    Jul 3, 2013
    Near Boston
    That is my absolute favorite track ever recorded. Pretty sure that is Willy Dixon, monster bass player, as he and Fred Below were Muddy’s rhythm section a little later, and it sure sounds like Dixon, especially the slap stuff
     
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  11. ProbablyTooLoud

    ProbablyTooLoud Supporting Member

    Aug 1, 2020
    Atlanta
    This song has been a fave of mine for decades for sure.
     
  12. AGCurry

    AGCurry Supporting Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    St. Louis
    Not Willie Dixon. Big Crawford.
     
  13. Stewie

    Stewie

    Jul 3, 2013
    Near Boston
    Thank you! Glad to find out
     
    AGCurry likes this.
  14. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    No, it's Big Crawford as previously noted. Great slap player!
     
  15. turf3

    turf3

    Sep 26, 2011
    I'd guess that when bass first came into blues, they were mostly playing two-beat? That's probably where I'd start, not with walking and shuffle lines.
     
    AGCurry likes this.
  16. klyph

    klyph Supporting Member

    Mar 28, 2009
    Cape Cod
    I tend to use descending lines a la 1 b7 6 5 a lot, playing quarter notes, two per note. I do this a lot during instrumental solos to pick up the energy a little. I alternate this with root fifth motion, usually under the singing. If I slapped, I would use 1 3 5 patterns more. Stay in the middle positions, and off the E string, like a bassist who has to compete volume-wise with no amp (unless you’re slapping). Have fun! The fact that there are few recorded examples make this a nice creative exercise. Don’t be afraid of the bow if you feel comfortable with it. I can only hope that some of the other players can provide “chop” for you to play off of, and your violinist can also play fiddle. :)
     
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  17. MichelD

    MichelD

    May 19, 2014
    Thanks, great ideas.

    I've noticed more and more lately with my jam group and the Cajun band I play in too, that the really low notes on the E string kind of get lost in the mix, and I mean acoustically. Kind of like when you play electric bass in a group and you need to play and tune your amp to the mid-range to cut through and be heard. And no, I don't slap.

    I listened to "Can't be satisfied" posed here earlier and as it happens, we do that one and what I have played is similar to what we hear on that record.

    And yes, I get lots of "chop" to help me along.

    I have a bow, but it is a worn-out old cello bow and I don't think it would cut it.

    Thanks again.

    Michel
     
  18. MrLenny1

    MrLenny1

    Jan 17, 2009
    New England
    Yup, simplify your bass lines.
     
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  19. This guy is wonderful in that style and has done a pretty thorough study of it.

    During the pandemic he recorded 15 or 16 of these videos, analyzing the heavy players of the era.

    Here's the first.



     
  20. ProbablyTooLoud

    ProbablyTooLoud Supporting Member

    Aug 1, 2020
    Atlanta
    Cool vids!