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Poll: What's your favorite sub (driver)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jim1457, Mar 30, 2006.


  1. jim1457

    jim1457

    Mar 29, 2006
    Honolulu Hawaii
    I buit a cabinet a while ago to house an Electrovoice EVM 15B series II that I got out of an old cab that was falling apart. I wanted it to be a sub to go with my Hartke 410TP.

    It came out sounding very similar to the Hartke, but louder. The speaker isn't really a sub. winISD says it's good to about 58hz and it rolls off fast after that. I like the way it sounds, but now I want to build another cab to back it up. So I'm looking for a driver that will match up nicely with it. Then I'll probably sell the Hartke.

    The best things I've found so far is an Eminence "Delta Pro 15" and an Electrovoice "SP15A". Actually, the SP15A looks like a perfect match, but I can't find one for sale. The Delta looks like it's about 2db less than the EVM 15B but it gets down to about 30hz in a big enough box.

    There's an interesting speaker on ebay that claims to be a factory over run. Made in America but can't say the name. It looks like a quality item, but the thiele-small specs look unbelieveable. Especially this one, x-max = 15mm! When I load these specs into winISD the graph shows a giant hump around 35-45 hz. and that's with a box volume of 1/2 litre! I'm sceptical. Maybe I made a mistake.

    Anyway, I'd like to hear about what other people are using or would like to be using. I run a GK 400RB head, so I only get about 300 watts total when I plug in 2 cabs. Even with that, the EVM 15B is real loud.

    Thanx in advance,

    Jim

    PS- Heres the rest of the specs to the mystery speaker, a lot of this stuff goes way over my head.

    Item: 15 inch Bass Guitar Speaker; 8 ohm; 300 watts

    Thiele-Small Parameters --

    Resonant Frequency (Fs) : 34 Hz --
    Impedance (Re) : 10.5 ohm --
    Electromagnetic Q (Qes) : 0.38 --
    Mechanical Q (Qms) : 3.76 --
    Total Q (Qts) : 0.36 --
    Compliance Equivalent Volume (VAS) : 11.48 Ft^3 --
    Surface Area of Cone (Sd) : 132.7 In^2 --
    Bl Product (TM) : 20.3 TM --
    Voice Coil Size : 2.5 inches --
    Sensitivity 1W/1M (SPL) : 99 dB --
    Nominal Impedance : 8 ohms --
    Xmax : 15 mm --:eyebrow:
     
  2. tadawson

    tadawson

    Aug 24, 2005
    Lewisville, TX
    FYI, if you want a great cabinet for the EVM, pull the plans for the TL606 from the EV archives. It's basically the box that Mesa used for the old Diesel 15's and they work very nicely, and if you use the step down port covers, you can get usable output down into the mid 30Hz range . . . .

    - Tim
     
  3. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Model the BMS 12N630 in WinISD. Small-box true sub that seems like it'll blow the doors off a lot of true 15" subs - and go lower than a lot of 18 subs. Weighs nince pounds and rated at 600 RMS, 1200 "program". Or model their 15N840 - smallest 15 box I've ever seen that would actually go low. 1200 watts RMS. And their Neo 18 drivers are similarly astounding. I doubt that I'd ever even want one of those directly on the stage - it'd bounce the mic stands right off the edge ; }

    These are all true subs, all neo, and the box sizes and performance look amazing.
     
  4. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    By the way, the specs on that speaker don't really seem like they all belong to the same driver ; } - got an URL?
     
  5. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    It's not really a sub per se though, and is rather uncommon. The whizzer cone makes it great for guitar synth or EUB. Here's mine:

    [​IMG]

    There's an older Eminence model with a cast frame that matches up really well with the 15B. I've used one in a 606 cab before with great results. I'll see if I can find the model number for you. But why not just get another 15B or 15L?
     
  6. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    For a non-neo the Peavey LowRider 18 (mumbles model number) does pretty good. Curve very much like the Eminence Magnum 18LF.
     
  7. jim1457

    jim1457

    Mar 29, 2006
    Honolulu Hawaii
    All right! Thanks you guys, I'm off to a good start already. This site rocks!:D

    I'm gonna go search those speakers and that TL606 cab right now. If I could turn that EV into a true sub, I might not even have to get another driver. After all, the Hartke is usually loud enough anyway. "Step down port covers" sounds like something I want to learn more about too.

    I was hesitant to list the URL for the ebay page that has the T-S parameters since they came from the seller and I don't want to seem like I'm trying to help sell it. The T-S info is listed in the "questions to the seller" section. I copied and pasted the it so it should be right. My concern about making a mistake was with entering it into winISD. There was one or two fields I couldn't fill in.

    I'll be back in an hour or so and I'll post the url unless someone says I shouldn't. The listing is still good for almost four days.

    By the way, nice job on your cab Charlie! She's a beauty. Is that the SP15A in there? And as far as bouncing the mike stands off the stage, well, that'd be alright with me. So far the best I've managed was to get pictures to fall off the wall, and I liked it.:bassist:
     
  8. joelb79

    joelb79

    Mar 22, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    For a Back-Ported box that is only good for when you have a wall behind you to couple it with: SWR Big Ben

    I almost always use a 15" speaker and biamp my rig. I like to keep the low bass out of the 10's, and put that through a bigger mouth per say. In the last 4 years, i have used a Hartke 115XL, but it could not keep up with me, so i recently replaced the speaker with an Eminience Beta Series 15. It keeps up with me a little more, and it gets rid of that nasty aluminum cone :)
     
  9. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    If that's the EVM 15B in the drivers already entered into WinISD's native database it's got a pitiful xmax by modern standards - and not just in comparing to actual subwoofer drivers either.

    Also, I see a lot of guys talking about port-plugging. Well, yeah, the curve will go lower. But the frequencies often mentioned are so far down from the 0 dB line, and the curve dropping across such a wide swathe in the mid-bass and upper-bass that it doesn't exactly scream SUBWOOFER when all is said and done ; }
     
  10. jim1457

    jim1457

    Mar 29, 2006
    Honolulu Hawaii
  11. I use a very similar cab to the one Passinwind shows in his pic (2 in fact) but black cloth covered. In Australia they are just called EV TL15 cabs as far as I'm aware.

    I believe they were originaly a design for use in theaters.
    I run an EV 400W EVM 15L Pro Line in each cab. (Bi-amp system)
    http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Speakers/EDS/EVM-15L%20Pro-line%20EDS.pdf

    They make me smile :D

    I dont have a pic to post unfortunately (yet).

    I can really recommend these cabs. The bottom end on them is big and fat but still tight.
     
  12. tadawson

    tadawson

    Aug 24, 2005
    Lewisville, TX

    To help you out, the TL606 builders plans can be found here:

    http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Builders Plans/TL606 Builders Plans.pdf

    The data sheet is part of the above file . . . . . usable low end is 45Hz in normal, and 39Hz in stepdown . . . .
    and trust me, these with an EVM15B can rearrange the furniture pretty well . . . .

    - Tim
     
  13. Hm, I have an EV 215 cab with a 6 inch mid. The speakers are woo watts a piece. They appear to be the same. Can anyone tell me what speakers they are or would I have to pull em out?
     
  14. jim1457

    jim1457

    Mar 29, 2006
    Honolulu Hawaii
    joelb, I agree about having a wall behind... and my cabs are both front ports. I find that the tone is way better if I get right up against the wall ( about 6" away). And I especially make sure to keep my cab parrallel to the wall, even though it doesn't seem to be pointing the right direction. One bar we play at has a curved wall behind us that leaves me pointing my cab at the guitar player instead of the crowd. But it still sounds better that way...

    greenboy, the winISD database is what I'm going by and, yeah, the x-max is small. But the spl is huge. When I was getting ready to build this cab, someone said it might be a better guitar speaker than a sub. I heard one guy play guitar through it (powered by a small fender combo) and it kicked a$$! I guess he was right. So yeah, it's not a real sub. And as far as losing db's to gain low end, I figure I have a few db's to spare...

    But I still want to find a real sub driver so keep those suggestions coming!

    I did find the sheet for the TL606 cab but I still have to check out all those drivers that have been rcommended so far. Thanx!!!
     
  15. jim1457

    jim1457

    Mar 29, 2006
    Honolulu Hawaii
    Wow! 3 more responses while typing a response... This place is great! I'll be back....
     
  16. joelb79

    joelb79

    Mar 22, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    jim please come back. ive found that this place rules.

    AUDIO LAW: Floor Loading Cabinet +3 DB
    Corner Loading Cabinet +6 DB
    Combinging Corner and Floor +9DB

    You get free bass for the location of the cabinet.

    Drawbacks: Some rooms are too boomy. If you find yourself wanting to go louder to hear your mids, try a bass cut. sometimes its exactly what the doctor ordered.
     
  17. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Yeah, I've heard a lot of EVs before. They used to be popular as retrofits for bass and guitar, and even as options from cab manufactuers too. And of course I've used them in PAs until lots better for less dough became available.
     
  18. jim1457

    jim1457

    Mar 29, 2006
    Honolulu Hawaii
    joelb79, I don't exactly understand that last post. "floor loading, corner loading???" ... I just know it sounds deeper and stronger when I get up against that wall. Even though it has me pointing at the other wall (about 30 or 40 degrees off stage center). Also I try to stay in front of the brick part instead of in front of the double doors. This puts me almost right behind the snair drum but my drummer don't mind.

    tadawson, thanks for the link. I still have to look into this more... but when I can re-arrange furniture I'll be satisfied!

    Freuds cat, that speaker makes me smile too. When I first got this cab out to a gig it even made the hair stand up on back of my neck. Really! I still need to check out your link, but thanx!

    Plain Old Me, I wouldn't know but it ain't that hard to pull one out and look. My EVM has all the good info right there on the back.

    Anyway, I'd like to keep this on topic. What other subs should I be checking out? I appreciate all this help. I'll be back tommorrow.

    Thanx again,

    Jim
     
  19. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Yeah, that's an SP15A that I picked up new for 50 bucks back in the 80s. I had a matching cab with an EVM 15B in it, and at one time I used to power the pair with a GK 400RB. The older ones actually only put out around 200 watts into 4 ohms I believe. The SP 15 cab is at my rehearsal space, where I use it for electric upright in my jazz trio.

    Anyway, if you want a true sub you'd do better to look elsewhere, but the TL cabs are still pretty nice for an old school bass cab solution. I used my pair for PA for some fairly big outdoor shows without subs underneath, and it was OK, given that I didn't need huge kick boom.
     
  20. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Yeah, really this thread is kind of muddled. True subs and 15" bass cabs are two different things ... By modern standards for power handling and the use of low B/A/whatever some of the old faves aren't up to what some of us are doing, and the amplifiers we are using. They work, just as they did way back when, but some pretty amazing advances have been made since they came out.
     

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