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Power Amp Question

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Ronny49, Jun 7, 2011.


  1. Ronny49

    Ronny49

    Aug 22, 2009
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ok... I'm looking for a power amp to power a BBE Bmax (SS) preamp.

    What I need is ground shaking bass. So I've been looking around and reading threads. I even called Carvin to ask their opinion on power amps. He said,
    their frequency response is 20 Hz - 20 kHz so it should cover any sounds you put through it.

    Well, I had purchased a Crown XTI 1000 and I've got to say, there was literally NO bottom end to that thing.

    Carvin says that you will get massive bass out of theirs if the preamp you use can give it to the amp to amplify.

    So, I am curious as to why some say one power amp gives more bottom end than others, when the frequency response is specified as the exact same?

    And last, does anyone have any knowledge on whether the new class D amps can keep up with the old heavy weights as far as thickness and punch?

    Peace
     
  2. wcriley

    wcriley

    Apr 5, 2010
    Western PA
    Any power amp (including the Crown you tried) should put out exactly what you put into it unless you have a filter engaged or the amp is malfunctioning.

    Lots of sound companies are using class D amps these days and they "keep up with the old heavy weights as far as thickness and punch".
     
  3. Alex1984

    Alex1984

    Jan 16, 2010
    Vancouver
    I still believe in weight and girth. My band stuck with Crest Pro and CA series amps. QSC PLX series seem interesting too.
     
  4. Sounds like there is something else at work here.

    Carvin makes great power amps, but I would take a Crown over carvin any day.
     
  5. One of the class D amps claim to fame is the light weight. But yes, the D's can make lows. Some are fan cooled and that may be a good indicator of high output. Can you bring your rig to a store to try out power amps ? - it's a hassle but What's the RMS rating for your cabinets ? You might try a power amp that is rated at double (at least) the RMS of your cabs. What are the frequencies of the knobs for your BBE pre ? Are your cabs the right ones to make the lows that you'd like to hear ?

    On a side note I recently solved my low frequency quest pretty much forever but it cost me quite a bit of cash.
     
  6. sawzalot

    sawzalot Supporting Member

    Oct 18, 2007
    Crown or QSC are my favorites. I own an XTi 1000 and it's awesome. It does have a DSP in it, though--are you sure you weren't running it through the crossover preset? I did that once and wondered what happened to my bottom end, until I realized that everything below 150 hertz or so was being filtered out by the DSP setting!
     
  7. Ronny49

    Ronny49

    Aug 22, 2009
    Phoenix, AZ
    I have to admit, I don't remember if that was the case or not. But even a friend took his amp (that he loved the preamp and just needed more power) into GC to try a Crown and he said after the sales guy connected it all up, it did not produce the same sound as the built in amp.

    I own two SWR GoLight cabs. A 8 ohm 410 at 800 watts and the 115 at 350 watts. GC carries Crown here and the Bass Place carries SWR 750 (which to me is a weak amp)
     
  8. Ronny49

    Ronny49

    Aug 22, 2009
    Phoenix, AZ
    BTW: another amp I have considered that I found used, is an SWR Stereo 800 from the 1990's. Anyone know if that is a worthy amp for girth and punch?
     
  9. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    It's one thing to get the lows from the power amp, it's another to get them out of the speaker.

    When people want "ground shaking bass", most end up disappointed, because it takes a huge amount of very low end to produce even a fairly wimpy amount of "shakin". And the power sucked away by the ultra-lows plus the EQ used to get any super-low out of the speaker often cut some of the "tone area" of the bass, which is mostly above 100 Hz.

    So you end up short on both the "shakin" AND the tone.

    The only way out of that is a LOT of speakers, or a huge LF horn, with amps to go with, etc. Or you can put more power in the "tone and loudness" area above 80 Hz, and cut through nicely.....
     
  10. Gizmot

    Gizmot Supporting Member

    Mar 22, 2009
    Nashville area
    I have nothing against Carvin, but I don't know anyone that considers any of their products as top-shelf stuff. They may make honest products that are fairly priced, but would I buy any of them and have I heard any of their stuff (instruments or amps) that knock my socks off? NO
     
  11. edwinhurwitz

    edwinhurwitz Supporting Member

    May 13, 2003
    Boulder, CO
    Endorsing Artist: DR Strings, SMS
    I went from a Crest CA9, which is all that and more for sheer bottom end impact, to a Crown XTi 4000. I don't have much trouble getting awesome low end (fEARful 15/6/1 with a 12/6/1 for bigger stages).
     
  12. dave2

    dave2

    Feb 10, 2007
    Texas
    +1 on the low end from a Crown XTi 4000 -- I get plenty outta my Crown, Demeter, and Aggie GS 410.

    OP: I'm probably not playing the same music as you do but... maybe you need more speakers? I wish I had 2 of these cabinets but 1 is pretty rockin.

    Dave
     
  13. edwinhurwitz

    edwinhurwitz Supporting Member

    May 13, 2003
    Boulder, CO
    Endorsing Artist: DR Strings, SMS
    That's not the only way out. The other way out is a fEARful. Run flat, the thing provides all the shaking you need plus is heard clearly all over the stage throughout all the registers of the bass. It also weighs significantly less than most other cabinets, to the point that my 1995 Subaru no longer struggles going up to the Eisenhower tunnel or over Vail and other passes here in Colorado.
     
  14. Cutty

    Cutty

    Jun 25, 2006
    U.K.
    I replaced my Peavey CS800S with the new IPR1600,iv'e run it bridged at 4Ohm and single channel for smaller gigs and didn;t notice any difference in the tone,this D class is very good IMO.
     
  15. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    Sounds like it amounts to the same thing....... speakers that produce more lows without sucking all the power or needing weird EQ..... Dunno a thing about those in particular, though.
     
  16. edwinhurwitz

    edwinhurwitz Supporting Member

    May 13, 2003
    Boulder, CO
    Endorsing Artist: DR Strings, SMS
    Except that there is no low frequency horn, nor is it concentrating energy above 80Hz to simulate low end nor are there a lot of drivers. Unless I misinterpreted your previous statement, it really is a different way out.
     
  17. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    naw, just suggested two things.... more speakers, more power or horn for more effectively getting power at lows into the air, or bagging it and concentrating on tone, letting the ear supply the fundamental. depends on $$ and tolerance for hauling gear.

    For "earth shaking lows" you need either

    more speakers with good LF response

    more power AND more speakers

    More efficient speakers. Might be a horn, or might be some other design.

    Apparently the ones you mention must be more efficient.

    No biggie.
     
  18. staindbass

    staindbass

    Jun 9, 2008
    the crown should not have sounded thin compared to the carvin. any decent amp will put out what you put into it. so chances are the carvin will sound the same as far as frequency response. if you want ground shaking, add 8 db of 40 hz, and 6 db of 63 hz. that will thicken it up. you didnt mention the type of speakers, some speakers wont shake the ground no matter how much you put into them.
     
  19. staindbass

    staindbass

    Jun 9, 2008
    i dont understand how a 15" could shake much. unless its a velodyne 15" sub thats flat to 25 hz.
     
  20. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    ....or a 3015LF loaded cab with a properly sized box.
     

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