power rating - ampeg vs swr round 1

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by unatratnag, Jul 19, 2005.

  1. I currently have a Goliath SWR III w/ workingman 2004 amp and use a passive fender. This is a great cabinet, especially when i had the passive bass and the aural enhancer made it sing.

    Next chapter in the saga: I recently purchased a warwick 2003 LTD FNA Jazzman. Sexy sexy bass. Problem is it seems to get buried in the mix (I play with two guitarist, one has a jcm 2000, other has a jcm 900 w/ 2 cabs) and in general i just don't like the sound of the goliath as much with the active bass.

    I've been testing out some of the more powerful amps for volume such as the 750x and sm900 thru the goliath and i like them, they're great amps and make it louder as expected.

    But I also tried the ampeg 810e and svt 4pro. This thing destroys the goliath in terms of volume and has a tone that i like more with my warwick. The power ratings of the ampeg are only 800 RMS though.

    Why is there such a large difference between my 700 rms goliath and the ampeg 800 rms? From what I understand of bass frequencies, more speakers means louder vs just increasing wattage. But there surely is more to this equation? Is SWR loose with their ratings and ampeg tight or is all this sheerly part of my imagination? In retrospect I probably should have tried 2 goliaths thru the sm900 but at the price it'd cost to get that i could just get the ampeg rig anyways...

    Your thoughts are welcome.
  2. Mcrelly


    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    sorry, I get confused easily, but if I understood your test rigs.

    using the exact same cabs with two rigs rated at 700 and 800w should sound "almost" as loud. HOWEVER, if you used MORE cabs AND if that resulted in a LOWER ohm load to amp a 700w amp COULD sound louder than the 800

    for example if you used the x750 with ONE goliath rated at 4ohms it would sound approximately (3 db's, twice as loud, accoustic energy output) than using the x750 with a goliath rated at 8ohms. (using two cabs rated at 8ohms would create a 4ohm load)

    theoretically you can double (increase db's by 3 units) your sound energy by DOUBLEING your watts, OR lowering your ohms "load".

    BTW the svt4pro runs 900w at 4ohms and 1200!!watts into 4ohms
  3. I had the same thing happen to me: I had an SWR and then I bought a warwick. I don't think the tone of a warwick works very well with the Hi-fi type sound of an SWR - just my opinion - and Like you I found the Ampeg tone to work much better with the new guitar.
  4. I've got two Warwicks and they both worked very good with my Ampeg. I'm now playing a Trace Elliot V8 and they still do the trick with this amp as well.

    That LTD 2004 should be a damn fine bass. I've got the LTD 2002 for sale now. I found out I don't really like Warwick necks...

    The SVT810E is one hell of a punchy cabinet so that makes a sound difference as well.
  5. sorry, my mistake.

    rig 1 = SWR SM900 + Goliath III 4ohm
    rig 2 = AVT 4PRO + 810e 4ohm

    in terms of the speakers it's 700 rms for goliath, and 800rms for the 810e, yet their completely different in terms of sheer volume... I put them at roughly the same output for the respective amps and the 810 seemed waaaay louder...

    I put the SWR up to about a little under 3/4 so i figure that's 625-650. I put the AVT up to half so i think it'd be roughly 600 for output. Yet the ampeg buried the goliath... am i incorrect in my assumptions here?
  6. You can't control really accurately control output power using the method you are attempting....

    A setting of "3/4" means nothing in itself, without knowing about the output of the bass, and the gain structure and EQ of the amp. Some amps clip on 5, while others (like EA) use the whole master volume range).

    Also, having a cabinet with double the number of drivers gives a large increase in efficiency.

    A somewhat more fair comparison is to see where each amp starts to break up. But be careful not to blow anything! Also, try switching amps and cabinets, and see how the Ampeg drives the SWR, and vice-versa.
  7. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    You have twice the speaker area with the ampeg cab, this alone gives you +3 dB.
    You would have to compare 2 Goliaths with the Ampeg to eliminate that factor.
  8. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    Well, if you have the 4PRO bridged, you actually get 1200W RMS, not 800, although that is only a couple dB more than 800W.........

    The difference in peak power is probably quite a bit more, though, the 4PRO has a fairly huge capability for peaks (big voltage swing).
  9. thejohnkim


    Sep 30, 2003
    he's right, you're comparing an 8x10 to a 4x10 cabinet. double the amount of speaker area with the same power is a big volume boost if all other factors were equal.
  10. I'm surprised it was only mentioned twice, but dont compare a head with less power going into less speaker area, to one with more power into twice as much speaker surface area. That's just silly. Try out a Megoliath (810) with that 750x, then we'll see. I can personally attest from experience that the Megoliath absolutely crushes the SVT 810 in terms of size, volume, and lows, but the SVT 810 will obviously best the disappointing Goliath III
  11. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Are you running both amps up to the point where they just start to clip?
  12. oh that's fine, the more people point it out the more i understand it to be driven home. I have no problem admitting I'm not the master of speakers... so thanks!

    Sigh... just so much more expensive for the goliath rig.. and it's too bad my volume trick didn't work.... :crying:

    clipping. no, the goliath was just below and 810 was no problem of course