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Poweramp Help Plz

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Hero of the Day, May 4, 2004.


  1. Hero of the Day

    Hero of the Day

    Aug 17, 2003
    ok so right now my rig is a ampeg b2r and avatar 210 at 8 ohms (700RMS). Im finding that at band practice I have to realy push the b2r to 10 to hear myself and it gets realy hot, so i think that more watts would solve this problem. I never used a poweramp before so i just need advise on how to properly run my cab with it. I plan on getting a avatar 115 during the summer at 8 ohms (600RMS). The poweramp im going to buy is a Behringer ep1500. For now i just need advise on how to run my 210 with the poweramp safely. :confused:
     
  2. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    It sure isn't helping you that you are getting only 200 W instead of the rated 350W. The 8 ohm power is rated 200W, and the 4 ohm power is rated 350W.

    So right now you are giving up almost half the power the amp could produce, because you aren't loading it.

    Of course, if you want a LOT more loudness, you may have to move up in power more than the not-quite-double you get with 4 ohms.

    You might try adding a borrowed 8 ohm speaker to the system and see if you like that, it would be 350W. You might then be able to get a 4 ohm version of a speaker you like and stick with fewer pieces and minimal extra expense.

    And don't forget that some speakers are less efficient....I don't have the Avatar info, but 10" speakers rated at 350W per each tend to be less efficient (I may get corrected on the Avatars...). Some more watts in and a few dB more efficient and you could get pretty loud without hauling any more stuff.

    You might check some others and see, unless you are really happy with the Avatars. Of course if they do exactly what you want, that settles it, get whatever power you need to get where you want to be....
     
  3. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Hero...You can simply run a shielded instrument cable from the preamp output of the B2R to the input of the power amp.

    I'm not sure what the maximum voltage that the B2R will put out at the preamp jack to know if you'll be able to drive the poweramp to full output. Perhaps Ampeg Insider can help us out here...

    Jerrold, as wonderfully toneful as the B2R is, it seems quite weak in the power output department. I don't believe that I've ever read negative comments about the amp's sound, but it really gets dissed for low output power. Every one that I've seen live has had the limiter lights on nearly full time...and the bassist isn't that loud.

    FWIW, I have an Avatar B210 and believe it to be pretty efficient. My other 2x10 is a home built cabinet with a pair of Celestion 10s out of an Isovent cabinet and they're about the same efficiency.

    Personally, I wish Ampeg offered a preamp version of the B2R. I owned a SVT-350H and loved the sound of the amp...and the B2R is my amp of choice when trying out basses at Guitar Center (into a PR410HLF....YUMMY!!!!)...put I need more power.
     
  4. Hero of the Day

    Hero of the Day

    Aug 17, 2003
    thanks for the info so far guys, can some one tell me my options such as bridged mode, parallel mode and stereo mode that i should run my 210 since i dont know much about poweramps?
     
  5. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Regarding poweramps and your B210, running 400-500W into them with a poweramp should be REALLY LOUD. Well, what I mean is, really loud for that specific cabinet. Are you trying to do a bit too much for the B210 to begin with? How loud is band practice?

    I guess what I'm saying is, first make sure that 2x10s can supply the sound level you need in the first place. Obviously it isn't, so in my opinion, simply adding more watts may not make a whole lot of difference. Most people say that the majority of the difference in perceivable volume lie in the amount of surface area you are getting. Of course watts make a difference too, but you are only getting a nominal amount of change the more watts you put in. I think you might hear a BIG DIFFERENCE if you were to add an 8 ohm 1x15 to your rig. That puts you at 350watts pushing 2x10s and a 1x15. That should be pretty good actually. Then again, I still don't know how loud you are practicing.

    Just for reference, I am using an Ampeg B5R (350W @ 4ohms) going to an Avatar B410 and that thing is LOUD AS LOUD.

    Good luck!

    -Transverz
     
  6. I have gone through the same experience with my B2r.

    With one 4x10 cab @8ohms the 200W signal wasn't enough for me.

    I added an AVATAR B115 8 ohm cab and the volume kicked up a notch. Pretty good but I was still maxing my rig and clipping at some points. BTW I play in a loud metal band with no PA support. I keep the EQ flat with a slight mid boost to cut in.

    So, in my quest for more juice I picked up a QSC USA 900. NOW WE'RE talking! I got the headroom I wanted. I must mention, however, that the B2r DOES NOT supply enough signal to fully power the QSC USA 900. It does push enough to use the amp, but you will never see the pretty lights flash on the QSC.

    I would recommend going for the power amp addition. As far as connecting goes I would run one cab bridged @ 8ohms and 2 cabs parallel @ 8 ohms per side. Connect the pre-out of the B2r to the power amp and thump away!
     
  7. Hero of the Day

    Hero of the Day

    Aug 17, 2003
    Thanks for all your help i just ordered my ep1500, i will be setting it up in bridged mode,cant wait for the extra uuhhmp. O yea by the way i am also goin to be getting a ampeg svp pro to replace the b2r as a pre when i save enough money. :D
     
  8. The SVP pro is also going to be in my rack sooner or later.
     
  9. Hero of the Day

    Hero of the Day

    Aug 17, 2003
    Alright so i got my behringer poweramp but i have a problem. Im trying to hook it up in bridged mono but it doesnt seem to be any louder. I have to crank the gain on the poweramp and my ampegs volume all the way up so i can hear myself. I have a 10ft speakon cable connecting the poweramp and my cab, could that be the problem that it is to long. So can some one tell me why the poweramp hasnt seemed to help?
     
  10. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    How do you have the power amp connected to the cab (which terminals, connectors, or what type cable -- you might be only using one side of the amp even if it is set to bridged)?

    Did you follow the directions of the amp's user manual when connecting the cab?
     
  11. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Do you know how your speakon plug is wired? If you look on the back of your amp, there is a little chart to the left of the banana jacks that tells the correct wiring for the speakons. For bridged mono, the speaker needs to be connected across 1+ and 2+.

    You can check by disassembling your cable and looking to see where the wires are connected. The terminal numbers are molded in the plastic insulator. "Normal" wiring is 1+ and 1- so you'll need to make sure that you're connecting to 1+ and 2+. It's a simple modification if you need to do it.

    If you do, make sure that you tighten down the old screw (on 1-) so that it doesn't fall out and possibly short out your cable.

    If your cable is properly wired, it's possible that your preamp isn't putting out enough signal to drive the power amp to full power.

    Also, make sure you're following the directions in the little box near the input connectors for the bridged mono mode.
     
  12. Hero of the Day

    Hero of the Day

    Aug 17, 2003
    Billy i dont know about my speakon wire, it is one end speakon and the other is 1/4. On the speakon it says 1+ and the 1/4 doesnt have anything writin on it. So what do you think it should do with the wire?
     
  13. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Could it say 1+/- instead of 1+?

    If you unscrew the cord grip at the end, you should be able to pull the jacket back and see where the cables conductors are wired. For bridge mode, you need for the conductors to be connected to 1+ and 2+.

    Speakon connectors have little screw terminals inside so no soldering is required (those clever Europeans).
     
  14. Hero of the Day

    Hero of the Day

    Aug 17, 2003
    no the speakon plug just says 1+. How do i open it? Could the problem be its a speakon to 1/4 cable? :confused:
     
  15. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    Refer to this link.
     
  16. Hero of the Day

    Hero of the Day

    Aug 17, 2003
    i just realized that my speakon is a nl2fc can i still use it?
     
  17. atomic_turtle

    atomic_turtle

    Jun 22, 2003
    Dracut, MA
    This is what I would do. First I would do is buy a NL4fc neutrik connector (speakon) and attach it to your speaker cable that had the nlf2c end already attached to it. I would then wire it to the appropriate configuration as shown in the behringer manual which you can find online if needed. Next I would confirm that you have the appropriate switches on the back of your amp set correctly for running the EP1500 in bridged mono mode. Finally, on your B2R make sure you do NOT have the 15db pad button pressed in on the front of your b2r. Also, I would use an XLR Cable to connect my b2r to my poweramp, if you do this make sure the -20db cut switch is not depressed. Im not sure this effects the 1.4" out but if you use the 1/4" out I would make sure that the -20db cut button is not depressed.

    FWIW I run the B2r as a Preamp and MY QSC as The power amp and it is loud as hell running in bridged mono mode. I use an xlr cable to connet the pre to the power amp and i make sure none of the db cut buttons are pressed, I also make sure the pre post button is pushed in so the signal going to the amp is affected by the eq. I typically set the voulme on my bass to slighty less than full. I set the B2r gain and master volume to 12 o'clock and have the clip limiter switch on. For the QSC I have only the channel one volume switch and 12 o'clock and the channel 2 volume knob off.

    DOnt be intimidated with the Neutrik(speakon)connectors cuase you dont have to solder anything and once I had it apart and in my hands it was very clear what to do to wire it correctly. It also helps to know what your amp manufacturer recommends. Keep us posted.
    :bassist:
     
  18. Hero of the Day

    Hero of the Day

    Aug 17, 2003
    Yes I finaly got a new cable and practieced today and this thing sounds great. :hyper: I cant wait to get a real preamp. Thanks for all your help guys. Turtle thanks for telling me how to set it up. :bassist: