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Pre amp/amp help

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Moby Rick, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. Moby Rick

    Moby Rick

    Jan 29, 2017
    So I am a total newb when it comes to amps, pre amps etc. So I have very little knowledge on sound and set up of these.

    I am the fortunate receiver of a new pre amp that I am excited about. But I have like I said very little knowledge in this dept. So if my Fender 200 has a pre amp built in, can I use this new pre amp with it or do I have to buy a new cabinet for the pre amp?

    I don't want to start plugging stuff in like an idiot and do it all wrong. So some advice would be helpful. And please be gentle.
    BadExample likes this.
  2. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Likely yes.

    However, it would help if you give us specifics about your amp, preamp and bass.
    BadExample likes this.
  3. Moby Rick

    Moby Rick

    Jan 29, 2017
    Of course.
    Amp - Fender Rumble 200
    Pre Amp - Sans Amp Tech 21 Ged 2112
    Bass - For the most part a Fender Jazz or Precision.
  4. HI Newbie.

    In general... IN GENERAL... (please read all appropriate manuals first) The Fender Rumble 200 has an effects loop.
    SEND - RETURN 1/4" jacks.
    These two jacks are electrically connected together, just as if there was a cable between the two.
    This SENDS the pre-amp signal to the amp through this connection.
    You can SEND THE Rumble's PRE-amp signal to another power amp.
    You can send an external pre-amp to the Rumble power amp using the RETURN Jack.
    Bim1959 and Mushroo like this.
  5. Moby Rick

    Moby Rick

    Jan 29, 2017
    Ok, I will give this an attempt. Thank you.

    FYI the pre amp manual really was little help on this matter. The amp manual I will look up online.
  6. Looks like, according to how I read it, you would use the Sans Amp unbal out, switched to the line position.
    IMHO the manual could stand a re-write for better clarity.
    BadExample likes this.
  7. BadExample


    Jan 21, 2016
    Welcome Mobs...

    Check the effects forum on the GED 2112, several largish threads there. Post back if you have trouble finding them.
    Old Garage-Bander likes this.
  8. So my suggestion would be to run the GED-2112 with the two channels it has ("Drive" and "Deep") blended, and into the power-amp section of your Fender Rumble. So, plug your bass into the GED-2112 (I'm getting one of these myself in a few days - super psyched!), and the 1/4" output of the "Drive" channel into the "power amp in" or "effects return" jack on the Rumble (not sure how it's labelled) - so you are effectively by-passing the pre-amp section of the Rumble (and whatever tone controls it has) and just using the power amp section.

    The GED-2112 has two channels, designed so you can run them through separate amps to separate cabinets, but the channels can be blended together as follows:

    Run a short cable from the Sansamp Output's Deep 1/4" jack (set for 0dB - button pushed in) into the Effects Loop's Return 1/4" jack, ensure the 50/50 Mix button is active, then run the Sansamp Output's Drive 1/4" jack into the input of your power amp, and the Drive XLR Out to the PA (if you're playing live and feeding a PA - not need if just using your amp). Start with both Level controls at 12:00. The Drive Level will now serve as a “master volume”, and the Deep Level will allow you to “blend in” the clean signal.

    Have fun!

    Old Garage-Bander likes this.
  9. Moby Rick

    Moby Rick

    Jan 29, 2017
    Ok, Update. Still need help and clearly out of my depth.

    I have temporarily replaced the Fender Rumble 200 amp with a Fender Rumble 115 bass cabinet. And I know it should be easy to hook the Ged 2112 up to the cabinet, but I am an idiot and can't seem to get that to work.

    I am clearly missing something, just too ignorant to know what. Could use some help in getting this stuff hooked up properly.
  10. BadExample


    Jan 21, 2016
    You need an amp after the preamp. Preamp straight to an unamplified cab won't make any happy sound at all :(
  11. Moby Rick

    Moby Rick

    Jan 29, 2017
    Yes I am discovering that I am pretty stupid. I have inherited or been gifted this new gear pretty quickly and I have no idea how to set it up properly.

    So I am amp shopping online right now.
    BadExample likes this.
  12. DigitalMan

    DigitalMan Wikipedia often mistakes my opinions for fact Supporting Member

    Nov 30, 2011
    The GED 2112 has an internal jumper that can combine the outputs as well.
  13. tedious1


    Feb 14, 2014
    Don't think you need more amps or pre-amps...

    Basically, think of your Rumble as three pieces in one (it is a combo after all):
    1) It has a pre-amp
    2) It has a power amp
    3) It has speakers

    These three things will give you a result.

    Pre-amp - tone shaping largely, dirt, eq etc. etc.
    Power amp - takes the pre-amp signal and basically makes it louder, gross oversimplification here
    Speakers - obviously where the sound comes out.

    Now you also have a discrete pre-amp. So now you open up other choices:
    1) You can use that discrete pre-amp in front of the Rumble, this gives you both sets of tone shaping options, which may or may not make for a pleasant tone.
    2) You can use the discrete pre-amp in the effects loop of the Rumble, again this is giving you both sets of tone shaping options, typically pre-amps with effects loops will have a wet/dry blend, which allows you to vary how much each pre-amp colors your end tone.
    3) You can use the discrete pre-amp and bypass the pre-amp on the Rumble (line out from the pre into the effects return on the Rumble) this uses only the discrete pre-amp for tone shaping, the Rumble simply brings the level up and passes it to the speaker to generate tone.

    Since you're new, forget all that stuff. Just plug your bass into the Rumble, and play, and play with the knobs, get a feel for what does what. Get a feel for the tones you find pleasing. You don't have to use the discrete pre-amp, and it will tend to cause dial overload at first.

    Learn the amp, once you're comfortable with the amp, then I'd try punching the discrete pre-amp out into the FX return on the Runble. Again, just using one pre, and again play around with it, get a feeling for how it behaves (they won't behave the same) and what it is capable of.

    If you haven't found 'your' tone at that point, then try the pre in the FX loop, in general I think this gives the greatest flexibility, but it's a lot of dials, and they will interact with each other in many cases.

    If at that point you still haven't found the sound you want, don't shop online! Go to stores and play stuff, your experience taming two pre-amps will serve you well. Then when it's time to buy, buy online (check the classifieds here too) if you want, but in general, and particularly at first, don't buy anything you haven't tried in person! One person's tone Mecca is another persons 6th circle of tone hell... Especially at first, try before you buy!
  14. Moby Rick

    Moby Rick

    Jan 29, 2017
    So tedious. What you are saying is I do not need the Rumble 115 cabinet at all, but with the correct connections I can use the Ged 2112 on the Rumble 200? I know a poster said this earlier but my ADD just took over and I got lost in the directions. I need basic terms and instructions on this.

    Cause if that is the case I am happy. Just need to find the right cables. Which I am sure I do not have.

    Right now I am sitting here with:
    Fender Rumble 200, amp from the original post.
    Fender Rumble 115 bass cabinet, new speaker.
    Sansamp 2112.
    Probably wrong cables.
  15. BadExample


    Jan 21, 2016
    Not stupid, just new to it.

    So, what cables to you have on hand?

    One caution, two types of cables look alike:

    MI 1/4" to 1/4" (AKA patch or phono cable). You have at least one, for bass to where you plug it into. This must be shielded. Use anywhere except on speakers.

    1/4 to 1/4 speaker. Use only for amp to speaker. Must not be sheilded.

    There are other types of connectors that are used for MI and others for speakers, but the above look the same, but are different.

    If you don't get some lingo, sweetwater.com has a good glossary. Good place for cables too if you dont need many. Not the cheapest, but free shipping makes it up for small orders.
  16. Moby Rick

    Moby Rick

    Jan 29, 2017
    Have the 1/4 cable for bass to amp.
    And a 1/4 to 1/4 speaker cable do not know if its shielded or not. It says live wire elite 2x12ga conductors.

    Thanks for the heads up on the glossary.
  17. groove pump

    groove pump

    Oct 24, 2006
    That speaker cable is what you need to add the 115 to your combo and make more sound than just the combo by itself.

    No matter what, you'll need one more short "instrument" or "patch" cord to run the output of your preamp to the input of the Rumble 200. You can probably grab a little pack of patch cords (different colors!!) for only a few bucks. If you want to connect your preamp to the effects loop of your Rumble 200, you'll obviously need two patch cords (send and return).
  18. Moby Rick

    Moby Rick

    Jan 29, 2017
    So with all the advice I have gotten here, which has been great, thank you. What I am doing is running the Ged 2112 into the Rumble 200 through the out on the FX loop into the return FX on the amp. Then plugging the bass straight into the Ged. It seems to be doing just fine. But is that right?

    Appreciate helping me work through this problem.

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