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Preamp acquired, now for a power amp and cabinets

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by amac, Jan 21, 2004.


  1. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    I've spent the last couple of days reading posts, but I wanted to ask anyway, plus announce that I've just acquired an Eden WP100 (I love my wife) which should arrive in a couple of days.

    Money available for power amp and cabs: $1500
    Bass: Modulus Quantum 6 with Barts.
    Style of music: Rock, Funk, Black Gospel, and Praise and Worship
    I want to get the power amp first, then take the preamp and power amp to my local guitar center and try out some cabinets.

    First question: How much power do I really need from an amp? From the posts here, it seems safe to go with a QSC PLX series power amp. I settled on the 2402 model, but am wondering if I should go with the 3402 (headroom and future cab) or if I can get away with a 1602 (cheaper, but will I need more later). Cabs I'm thinking about: 210, 210 w/ 15, or 410. Most specs I've seen for cabs are around 350 watts (210s) and 700 watts (410s). Money is also going to be a factor here. I can get a 2402 for a little over $700 (new), but a 3402 would probably eat into my cabinet fund. If I get a 1602, have more money for cabinet.

    Criteria on cabs were ease of transport to practice and small gigs, punch, reproduction of low B, and clarity. I thought about starting with a single 210 (money being the factor here), but I've read 210s don't do a B string justice. I could use the 210 for practice and combine it with a 15 when I play out. However, if I do that it may be better to just carry around a 410 instead of two separate cabs. Anyone tried both and have a preference (sound and hauling around)?

    Any suggestions on different amps or cabinet configurations welcome. Thanks guys.
     
  2. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Thought I'd throw this out for discussion and a bump on my post.

    An Acme B2 to start out with and add another one later. I've read a bunch of posts about them, but it's hard for me to believe a 210 can pump out solid low end at loud volumes.
    I know they suck up power, but if I get the PLX 2402, that shouldn't be a problem. The thought of carrying a 50lb 210 to handle my sound needs is very tempting.

    Question: with the added low end capabilities, do they have the punch of a regular 210/410?
     
  3. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Excellent idea. I have a pair of B2s driven by a PLX 3002 and they will go LOUD. And they go very low indeed.

    Yes, but in a cleaner way.

    Alex
     
  4. have you been to the acme website to read about how they're designed and how they work? you probably wouldn't have any doubt if you had.

    robb.
     
  5. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Ok. If I were to get the Acme B-2 with the knowledge I would add another one later, should I get the 4 or 8 ohm?

    With the 2402 I can run
    Stereo:
    425W @ 8 ohms
    700W @ 4 ohms
    1,200W @ 2 ohms
    Bridge mono:
    850W @ 16 ohms
    1,500W @ 8 ohms
    2,400W @ 4 ohms

    If I got two 4 ohms, I could run one from each channel @ 700W. Or if I got two 8 ohms, I could run them bridged with 2,400W (would that be potentially damaging?).
     
  6. metron

    metron Fluffy does not agree

    Sep 12, 2003
    Lakewood Colorado
    I had an Acme B2 and I quickly reached its physical limits and found it wasnt loud enough for me (band with one acoustic guitar...) Others have found them to be loud enough but not I.
     
  7. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    What are you using now?
     
  8. I run a DPC 1400X into a 4 ohm B-4 and couldn't be happier ($749 w/cover, weighs 78lbs and I can fit it, my rack, and bass into the back seat of a Ford Focus). Two B-2s is going to run you $960. I would get the 8 ohm versions just in case you ever decide to switch amplifiers. The 2402 has enough juice to run them any way you decide to hook them up though (most likely stereo). Add another $130 to the $540 left over and you could pick up this QSC PLX 2402 off E-Bay using BIN. Another option would be a Sewart World 2.1 (around $600 new?). Watever way you decide to go I think you'll like the Acmes. Make sure to take note of the "break in" period. Many TBers can give you advice on this
     
  9. inazone

    inazone

    Apr 20, 2003
    Colorado
    I have the eden pre and a qsc plx (1602, 3402) and the two cabs I like best (Ive tried alot) is the bergantino 322 and epifani 410. Each cab is about a $grand$ and will leave enough $$$ to get the 2402. To my ears the berg sounds deeper, more solid and great smooth highs. The epi is tight, focased low end and great (tweeter type) highs. Either cab will floor you with the sound. You can get alot of sounds with the eden pre and plx power, Im still finding new tones with mine. FYI I picked the berg cabs (I have two 322s) over the epi but I have a feeling that the epi might cut better in a very loud rock band. Mainly cos its not as smooth sounding. Your ears may be different.
     
  10. emjazz

    emjazz Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2003
    Boston, MA
    I can't reccomend the Bergantino 322 enough. In my opinion it's the best single cab out there. It has built in castors as well so toting it around isn't so bad. You may also want to consider two Bergantino 112 cabs. This is what I use and they are so loud and clear that I can play anywhere with them.

    There's no way that you need more than the PLX1602. If you need more than 1600 watts than you better be playing a stadium or running four cabs. The hype that you need 2000 watts or more is just that, hype.
     
  11. metron

    metron Fluffy does not agree

    Sep 12, 2003
    Lakewood Colorado
    I bought a Bergantino 210 after I sold my Acmes (I had the B4 too) The Berg is everything I was looking for in a speaker. I use it with electric and upright. Just recently I traded my SVT-CL for the Berg 115 for larger venues. These speakers are expensive but worth the money IMO. I will have a 112 and probably the 322 in the future also.

    The Acmes are great speakers but I found that the B2 wasnt enough and the B4 was too much. I couldnt find a happy medium volume-wise between them.
     
  12. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    I'm thinking I would only need the 1602. At most, I would only be pushing 2 cabinets. Here are the scenarios:

    210 cabinet (8 ohm @ 350W) or 410 cabinet (8 ohm @ 700W). If I start with one, I could bridge the amp and have 1,100 watts. Two, I could run them bridged (4 ohm) at 1,600 w.

    If I need more cabs and/or more power later, I can add another amp instead of starting real big at the expense of my bank acct.

    What is the opinion on that? 1602 is all that I would need, or save $130 more and get the 2402 just in case.
     
  13. What size venues do you normally play at. Do you have PA support? (ie. are you going to use your cab as your monitor, or will it have to carry the bass guitar for the whole venue?). All these questions must be answered when deciding on power and cabs. I just went from a 210 stand alone to a 410 stand alone b/c at the venues where I didn't have any PA support, my 210 would break up a little when i played the low B. The 410 solved that problem for "me" and for the venues that "I" play. You see where I am going with this? Your power and cab needs are going to be determined by these things. Just my $0.02
    Mitch
     
  14. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Sorry I didn't specify.

    I would say that half the venues I play, there is a PA. The other half is divided between indoor w/o PA and outdoor w/o PA. The indoor w/o PA, range from small (30-50 people) to larger (gymnasium size). Outdoor venues w/o PA are small.

    It would be nice to have a cabinet and run another for a monitor, but situations where I would need that are few (as of right now).

    Also, about 65% of the gigs tend to be more acoustic driven. But the acoustic trio I'm in that accounts for that 65% is looking to add an electric guitar player. :spit: I love electric guitar players (I used to be one before I saw the light), but why do they have to be so loud? (comments on the previous statement are not needed. I don't want this to turn into a "I hate electric players who play loud and can't even play" thread).;)
     
  15. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    The more I read, the more I think one Acme B2 would do you for most stuff, and a second would kick it up to give you ample power for big venues or louder bands. And they'd sound great with your Modulus and Eden, really thick yet clear.

    A PLX 1602 bridged into one or two 8 ohms Low-B2s would be a fine rig.

    Alex
     
  16. Iagree with Josh on this one. I use a PLX 1602 in bridged mode with an Eden Navigator pre through a SWR Goliath III 4x10. I just got this rig, but putting it through the paces so far I can't imagine needing much more than that! Of course with different cabs your mileage may vary. But 1100 watts of clean power should be plenty for most situations. Good luck and let us know what you decide on!
    Mitrch
     
  17. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    I really appreciate all the responses. I'll have some time to think about a power amp and cab since the wife says we need to pay off a few bills first. But I should be able to make a purchase in a few months, which will give me enough time to change my mind a few times. ;)

    Right now I'm thinking of going with a PLX 1602 and an Acme B2. What I really like about the Acme B2 is the portability and ability to handle a low B. Having never played one I can't comment on the sound, but with everything I've read and the two week return policy I would feel confident getting one.

    I'll post pics and a review of the Eden Navigator when it comes (hopefully tomorrow, I'm watching the FedEx tracking page like a hawk).:D

    Please keep the opinions coming.
     
  18. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    just thought i'd chime in as another satisfied Acme user.

    i'm also actively involved in my church's praise team, and my Acmes have served me very well there. with my 5 strings, or my Eminence EUB, thru either my pair of 1x10s, or my larger 4x10, i couldnt be happier. :p

    also, i think the 1602 is more than enough for most guys, especially in a P&W context.

    like most have suggested, i think the Acme 2x10 is fine choice for your app. btw, Andy does offer a two week trial period, so if you're not happy, you can return no questions asked. and speaking of which, andy's customer service is great. like most of us, he will have an off day, but on the whole, i couldnt be happier with his service and product.

    with the versatile Eden pre, i'm sure you can sculp your tone every which way to Sunday, without a problem. just as an FYI, i've tried a few pieces of Eden heads with Bergantino cabs, and found the sound to be a little too congested and stuffy in the mids for me. but i've found the Acmes, due to their neutral color, allow something as "dramatic" and colored sounding as the Eden, shine thru nicely. e.g. my old WT400 was a killer match for my old B2, and i did rue the day i sold that little head. :(
     
  19. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I could toss in something like a buck fifty, but I'll start off with my two cents.

    I also own an Eden Navigator preamp, and I am very happy with it. In addition, I use (and love!) a PLX 3002. So far, we're paralleling pretty well. When I first bought all of this gear, I'd probably venture to say that a stroll with my rig to the local Guitar Center or Sam Ash would be a good way to go. However, then my eyes were opened to the world of EA, Epifani, and Accugroove (and I now own one or more cabs from all of the above). I have not heard Bergantino or ACME cabs, but from what I have read, and from how good I see (and hear) that some of these "botique" bass gear makers are, I would be very interested in checking them out.

    My point is, if at all possible, get ye to a store that carries some of the higher end bass gear (or just do like me, and take one or more leaps of faith and order the stuff!). I have heard rumors of one or more botique bass stores opening up in the Georgia area, so that might be worth looking into. Perhaps a drive down to Bass Central is doable. At any rate, you are building a great rig. Don't pass up on some very good offerings by limiting yourself to Guitar Center.

    Some cabs to be sure to check out (IMHO) would be, Whappo, Jr. (or El Whapppo, if you can manage to transport it), Epifani T-410UL, Bergantino HT322, one or two VL-210's or VL-208's. I haven't heard ACME's myself, but there are some pretty knowledgable folk recommending them, and with the PLX, you'll have the power, so check them out, too. One nice cab that you might find at Guitar Center, though, is the new Eden T-210XST. There are others that I would look at first, but this cab is no slouch, especially with enough juice behind it. Try two with your rack rig, if you do look into it.

    Good luck, Tom.
     
  20. inazone

    inazone

    Apr 20, 2003
    Colorado
    Ill go one step further. I kinda agree with joker but not in your case. You play a modulus! Like tom I have the eden pre and a plx 1602 and I play two modulus's. One with barts and one with emg pups. At first I had trouble cutting through with the berg 322, eden pre and the modulus with the barts. I switched to the mod with the emg pups and it made a big difference. Then with the help from the people here at TB I learned more about eq. Now I can get the cut and the sound with the bart pups like I can with the emg pups. I hear some of the same things that joker is talking about with bart pups in alot of basses, with the eden pre and berg cabs. But that eden pre can do alot about that problem. I have also played alot of bars with two 112s. Dont know if you have thought abought that. You could go with 112, two 112s and if you got a 210 later, 210 & 112 (berg 322) or 212 & 210 (my favorite, which is why I use two 322s. 410 & 212). Just a thought. Good luck!