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Preamp+DI+effects loop / Not using any amp

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by MAGUS®, Feb 19, 2005.


  1. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
    Looking for an all in one box - Preamp/Di/ with FX loop.

    Any names considered and even better if you have one and can testify to its peformance.

    The Donuts and coffee are on me

    I'm juggling with the idea of not bothering with an amp at all, rather just going into some effects and straight to the mixer.
    When i say effects, i have a KORG AX10B, which i think will act as a preamp, though i also have a couple of footpedals too.

    Is there any potential problems with this , like maybe i should go into a better/decent preamp first and DI box last?
     
  2. SoComSurfing

    SoComSurfing Mercedes Benz Superdome. S 127. R 22. S 12-13.

    Feb 15, 2002
    Mobile, Al
    I've done this on a few small acoustic-type gigs with a good PA. Used J-Retro pre/DI stompbox. I've also done it on a few gigs using a VBass for amp modeling and such. I've always had pretty good success with it, but alot of it will depend on monitoring and PA.
     
  3. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin Bitten by the luthiery bug...

    Oct 8, 2001
    Budapest, Hungary, EU
    Well, my teacher has done something like this a couple of times when he didn't want to carry a lot of gear around, and when he knew there's a decent PA system with some sensible soundmen. The difference is that he plugged directly into the mixer, without any preamps, multi-fx or DIs...
     
  4. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
    So would that be a totally unbalanced signal then ?
     
  5. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    ah the real sans amp.........

    the way to do it is to use a di or a preamp with a balanced di output. going unbalanced into the mixer is not going to sound good at all. if it did no one would use di boxes to change the high impedance signal from their bass into the low impedance signal required by mixers. There is nothing wrong with going amp less as long as the pa can handle it. that means the pa needs enough power to reproduce your bass signal at at the volume required by the gig without clipping, the pa mains and/or subs need to be able to reproduce your signal with enough low end and without being overdriven, and the monitors for yourself and the other musicians be able to reproduce your signal adequately as well.

    chances are the monitors wont be able to unless you have really good ones.
     
  6. Of course the unbalanced signal becomes much less of a problem if he's using an active bass...

    And yes, the biggest problem is likely to be monitoring - can the monitors handle your bass or are you going to need an amp on stage to hear yourself?
     
  7. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
    Thanks Mike -

    I certainly wouldnt go straight into a mixer " Un DI'd " myself. I was assuming i'd be using some kind of box or other.
    A decent powered monitor would be useful, yes. A Mackie SRM ( which i've used before would be ideal )

    I was asking somewhere else on here how to cable up the order of effects pedals and a 1 box Preamp/Di ...

    Trying to use logic, i was assuming guitar to preamp/DI first, as surely i want to shape the tone first before FX pedals, but that means the last cable would be exiting an FX pedal and not the DI box ? Or buy seperate preamp and DI box ?

    Confusing
     
  8. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I did it with my Avalon U5 last week, and I'm going to try my Radial ToneBone BassBone at our next gig. It works great if you've got a PA with good subs.
     
  9. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    it depends upon the effects. as long as you're using stomp boxes then you can just put the preamp/di or regular old di last. any effects you'd normally plug into before your amp can be plugged into prior to the di. even with rack mount effects that you'd use in an effects loop you could use a preamp with an effects loop and that has a di that allows you to select it for post-eq/effects loop. you may find that you can get away with just a di. a good one like a U5, countryman, aguilar, radial, etc often sounds as good or better than a preamp. often eq adjustments are better done at the board anyway as you won't be able to know what your bass sounds like in "the house", but the soundman will.
     
  10. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
    Well my current list of FX is quite small, but..

    Korg AX10B Multi FX ( this has a Comp, Treb, mid, bass, vol, and all sorts of other modulation and delays etc ) but i'm thinking of just having stomp boxes, as its trying to be all things to all men and i'm not sure its doing what i want

    my single stomps are..

    Ibanzez FL9 flangy thing, Boss CS3 compressor, Boss DD2 delay, George Dennis tremolo,

    Currently looking for a basssynth

    Can you name any fabtastic sounding preamps with DI and FX loop ?

    Cheers Mike
     
  11. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
    Looking for an all in one box - Preamp/Di/ with FX loop.

    Any names considered and even better if you have one and can testify to its peformance.

    The Donuts and coffee are on me
     
  12. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    lol, just about all of the preamps available today have an effects loop and a di out. www.basstasters.com has soundclips of tons of them. some of my favorites are the demeter, alembic, aguilar 680, and eden. however, i havent been able to try all of the high end ones. for less coin the b-max and sans amp rbi are low cost favorites around here. i'm pretty sure both of those have effects loops as well as di outs. knowing your application i would say just make sure that the preamp has the option to run the di post effets loop (some are pre eq only). another tick in the eden's favor is the fact that it has 2 effetcs loops, at least one of which is low level so it won't distort stomp boxes.
     
  13. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
    Magic Mike .. ;) ;)

    Time to check some of those babies out

    Ta pal :cool:
     
  14. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    hehe,

    i've gone many a gig with no amp. while the sansamp, sadowsky, j-retro, and the like are great in themselves, IMHO, nothing beats a hifi studio quality recording DI.

    Avalon U5, Demeter Tube DI, Aguilar DB900, Radial JDI, and yes, the ol' Countryman DI, which IMHO, is the best bet. bulletproof, and yet sounds pretty darn good and transparent. i dont see how a pedalboard into that DI into the house wouldnt sound good. FYI, i usually gig with my Demeter, but for those places where i wouldnt feel comfortable, 9 times outta 10, i'll use the ol' beat to crap, yet still kickin' it Countryman on the stage of the club.

    but also a nice compressor is good to have as well to keep things like a runaway flanger, subharmonizer, etc. in check. you could use any pedal and the Demeter Compulator is quite good, but a much better bet is FMR's "RNC" compressor. killer sound for sooo little.

    and of course, everything Ivanka said. :p
     
  15. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
  16. Not if the mixer had a HI-Z input and some do.
     
  17. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    the back only shows a ground lift switch next to the xlr out. my guess is that teh xlr is hard wired to be post eq, but you'll have to check with bbe. IIRC, there are two versions of the b-max, one with a tube in the preamp, one without. there's a chance that the tube version may have a selectable pre/post di, but that's just a guess. IME, a direct xlr out should be selectable from pre/post eq, as many times you will want to use eq for your stage rig (not an issue in your case) but the soundman will prefer a non-eq'd signal, especialy if you adjust your eq all night. (that drives me nuts as a soundman) to go off on a bigger tangent, if you decide on a bbe b-max you'll probably want to try both the tube and ss version to see which you like better. IIRC, the ss is a little tighter sounding, and the tube version is a little "softer" sounding. there's no clear winner as far as tone goes, it's a matter of personal preference.
     
  18. Toasted

    Toasted

    May 26, 2003
    Leeds, UK
    EBS microbass II?
     
  19. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
    Right now, i'm thinking about the sansamp PSA 1. Presets go a long way with green horns like me.

    Perhaps a guru on here can state whether you can DI out this baby after the FX loop ?

    Magic Mike might know ;)

    I did the ususal searches, but that specific knowledge i could not find
     
  20. MAGUS®

    MAGUS®

    Dec 23, 2004
    UK
    Smash - do you know if the DI out takes the FX signals with it, if any are connected to the loop ?

    Talking about the Bmax.