Quick rant, then open discussion. This weekend my band set up and tore down without ever playing. We were playing a show with some highschool acts (we're all working class in our 20's). The venue (no bar, good sound, big stage) always hands out presale tickets to the bands. $10 presales, $12 at the door. The bands don't see any of this money. We usually hand all but the close friends and girlfriends back (so we'll sell maybe 5 of 20) to save our entourage $2. So we're all set up, and I'm asking around for two more mics, wondering where the soundguy is. I find the venue owner (the only guy there older than the guys in our band) and he says "I still haven't seen your money. I need your presales and tickets." I point to our last member, who's lugging his halfstack, and tell him that guy has the last of our tickets. He wants to know where the money is, and I finally ask him "Wait, so we're not getting mics if we didn't sell any presales?"... Long story short, his view is "why have you play here if you're not bringing anyone?" Mine is "why bring you $10-$12 a head without any cut for me, basically having my closest friends come out to a 6th show in a month, handing you cash that I'll never see, when I did literally ALL the work." What's your experience with presales? Is there an upside for the musicians? Our band has taken &*^% that venue stance, might write a song about the presale business, and most certainly won't play that venue again. Are we wrong? Why does this still happen, what's the alternative?