primer problems

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by happychicken, Apr 21, 2014.


  1. happychicken

    happychicken

    Jan 24, 2012
    Hi everybody!
    i recently have been trying to refinish my peavey foundation and have had no luck. First i sprayed rustoleum primer then 2k house of color base and cleared it. The rustoleum primer turned to mush. Like play dough. stripped it all off and restarted. Then i went on a bunch of guitar refinishing sites and there all like just spray it with clear coat to seal it. That went worse then the first one! clear would not stick to some of the bass surface. i did wipe and clean the whole bass with windex before to degrease and clean it.
    now i have epoxy primer from house of colors on order. I was told the 2k base from house of colors can be "hot" and will not bond to 1k primer. (learning!) Anyway just checking to see what you all use to prime/seal before painting.
     
  2. Mahataru

    Mahataru

    Apr 7, 2013
    I use vinyl nitro sealer on raw wood, then pore fill, more vinyl sealer, then on to color or clear.
    Shouldn't be as difficult as your situation has been. Is your peavey stripped completely to raw wood?
     
  3. happychicken

    happychicken

    Jan 24, 2012
    Yes it's raw wood. Thanks
     
  4. I've stayed away from house of color for those reasons. It seems that there is a bit of a learning curve. Untill VOC laws change in my state (MI), I'm staying with urethane primer and polly base. I prefer Restoration Shop brand for their auto color selection, and price.
     
  5. Hopkins

    Hopkins Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 17, 2010
    Houston Tx
    Owner/Builder @Hopkins Guitars
    Whoever told you to use the clear designed for use with your color coat as your sealer coat was correct. Your problem was that you used windex, instead of a solvent based grease and wax remover, especially since you sprayed it on bare wood, you were basically spraying paint on top of wet wood. Next time use acetone, lacquer thinner, or even denatured alcohol, as they all dry very fast. If you use the windex again, you will have the same issues with your epoxy primer.
     
  6. Dadagoboi

    Dadagoboi CATALDO BASSES Commercial User

    Jul 1, 2005
    Florida Swamp
    CataldoBasses: Designer/Builder ThunderBuckerPickups:Consultant
    This is what I use. Compatible with any spray on finish from Nitro and acrylic lacquer to catalyzed urethanes, etc.
    P1050806_zps03deaa9c.jpg

    Raw Honduras Mahogany sanded to 180. NO GRAIN FILLER. One application of polyester primer, block sanded with 320/400. 1 coat nitro lacquer, 3 coats nitro clear. Color sanded and buffed five days later.
    P1020179P_zps021007dd.jpg
     
  7. happychicken

    happychicken

    Jan 24, 2012
    ah that was the problem! should i buy a wax and grease remover or use acetone/lacquer thinner/denatured alcohol? that bass looks great BTW! Hopkins i took your advice and ordered that gun from TCP you mentioned in last thread! i already ordered epoxy primer from auto body supply or i would order this polyester stuff. unless its that much better ill cancel the order and get this stuff on the net?
     
  8. Hopkins

    Hopkins Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 17, 2010
    Houston Tx
    Owner/Builder @Hopkins Guitars
    I have no experience at all with epoxy primer. From what I have heard it is almost impossible to sand so try not to get any runs.
     
  9. happychicken

    happychicken

    Jan 24, 2012
    ok so im gonna skip that then. I bought house of color ks10 which is a urethane sealer ill spray that over the clear because they say that it can't go direct to substrate. Thanks for the help!
     
  10. Dadagoboi

    Dadagoboi CATALDO BASSES Commercial User

    Jul 1, 2005
    Florida Swamp
    CataldoBasses: Designer/Builder ThunderBuckerPickups:Consultant
    should i buy a wax and grease remover or use acetone/lacquer thinner/denatured alcohol?... or i would order this polyester stuff. unless its that much better ill cancel the order and get this stuff on the net?

    I have no experience at all with epoxy primer. From what I have heard it is almost impossible to sand so try not to get any runs.


    Wax and grease remover is basically naptha. IMO use it , not acetone or lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol which has water in it.

    TCP Global sells the polyester primer I posted. It's an epoxy catalyzed product, sands VERY easily. I use their products including acrylic lacquer. Price, color choice and quality is excellent.

    It's best to buy all your coatings from one supplier, that helps solve many compatibility problems. To be safe do not use vinyl sealer under automotive paint, or grain filler for that matter. They're not products specifically designed to be compatible with modern auto paint.

    These are my opinions. Mixing and matching of various manufacturer products works a lot of the time but when they don't it can be disastrous and expensive. Here's an example: this looked great until the nitro lacquer topcoat started shrinking over the metallic acrylic lacquer color coat. Now it's a crackle finish.

    P1020704_zpsba69268e.jpg
     
  11. happychicken

    happychicken

    Jan 24, 2012
    Bass looks good to me! Shows what I know.. Anyway ill grab some of the kustom shop polyester surfacer.. What size needle do you shoot this out of? 1.5,1.8,2.0?
     
  12. Dadagoboi

    Dadagoboi CATALDO BASSES Commercial User

    Jul 1, 2005
    Florida Swamp
    CataldoBasses: Designer/Builder ThunderBuckerPickups:Consultant
    I use a 1.7 with an old style siphon feed gun. I'm not qualified when it comes to gravity feed. I'd try the 1.8
    The problem with catalyzed coatings is determining the right amount of hardener to paint ratio for small amounts. After doing quite a few bodies I found that 6 ounces of poly primer is enough to do one body. With the Kustom Shop stuff I use 80 drops of hardener for that 6 ounces of primer. Then I don't end up throwing away a lot of expensive catalyzed coating.
     
  13. happychicken

    happychicken

    Jan 24, 2012
    Now here is question. And I don't mean to offend people at all I am trying to wrap my head around this is all.
    Why are people still using lacquer? Isn't that that old way? All types of problems and final finish sticky? Is this a purest thing? Are people afraid of health concerns of 2k urethanes?
    Reason I ask this is I saw a duplicolor candy kit that is lacquer. Primer, silver base, orange candy, then clear. I was told it wouldn't last long and just end up cracking. But it was easy looking to use just spray right out of the can.
    Now I read that a lot of people are using lacquer and this nitro stuff I keep reading about is also lacquer.
    Sorry to be ignorant, I am just confused!
     
  14. Hopkins

    Hopkins Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 17, 2010
    Houston Tx
    Owner/Builder @Hopkins Guitars

    Lacquer is kind of a generic term, while Nitrocellulose is lacquer, there are other kinds of finishes that are labeled as lacquer that are not nitro.

    Nitro has its advantages, its easier to spray than a catalysed finish like a V.O.C. Urethane. It is about the only quality finish that can be sprayed out of a rattle can, so you can get a pro level finish without having to have spray equipment. It is also very easy to repair, because it is a burn in finish so you can spot repair with no witness lines, and it polishes much easier than harder urethane finishes.

    That being said, I have totally quit using it in favor of automotive urethanes. Urethane finishes are more durable, build faster, so they don't need near as many coats, and they are completely dry in 24 hours so there is much less down time compared to nitro, which can take up to a month to completely out gas.
     
  15. happychicken

    happychicken

    Jan 24, 2012
    Nice urethane here we go! Thanks for response that helps keep me on the urethane path. Here is what I want to do please tell me if it sounds doable and if there are any steps I can omit:
    1) epoxy prime- not real epoxy it's a high build primer epoxy and something else combo
    2) seal with house of color ks10- sealing white because next coat is silver and I want it to pop as hard as it can
    3) silver coat hok bc01
    4) prismatic flake (40 microns)
    5) hok urethane kandy uk2 and uk9 mixed together
    6) clear coats
     
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    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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