Double Bass Pros and cons to Gut Strings?

[damonsmith]

I use solos, but tuned normal, to pull a big pizz sound it is a lot more like gut, you dig in the same way.

Pretty spot on. I will add that switching over to steels, and then solos, has introduced me to a world I had previously shunned as a gut-only player. The main difference has been string height and tension but also recorded sounds. Once I put on a set of solos and really started attacking solo playing I quickly realized the advantages. My italian bass loved the higher tension and the higher tension forced me to lower the string height to a level I would never have been comfortable with as a percussive slap inclined player. With a new sense of, gasp, sustain, I started to explore longer notes. The more sustain forced me to be more in tune, I actually could not get away with the same intonation variables that I could with gut. The sound almost felt as though it were coming out of a different place on the bass, i.e. much further down. It also set in a different place in the mix, less 'around' the other instruments and more 'inside'. There was a time I would have hated this as I wanted the bass to be drum-like. That works great for a lot of music but not all. I quickly determined years ago, I think when I actually took off my guts, that irish music did not sound good with guts. It just didn't sit where I needed it to and was not doing the job as well as steel. I remember saying that bass in irish music needed to come up from the bottom as if the bottom of the pool was raised and formerly swimming instruments could suddenly stand on terra firma. Steel comes up from beneath. Gut comes more surround sound. I love both for different applications. The new super low action has allowed me to comfortably tackle the cello suites and make me finally more comfortable in the upper registers. Some may not need that help but I certainly did. I also find that recording with solos and a good mic creates a crystal clear note that my engineers really dig. The tighter string pushes the air along and the solo tuning creates a clarity I've never had before. I've even experimented a little with Ray Browns "full side length of the finger" technique. All very illuminating.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I use solos, but tuned normal, to pull a big pizz sound it is a lot more like gut, you dig in the same way.

I am currently doing the same. They seem to work just fine. I think I experimented awhile back switching back and forth and found that there is a slight difference in "weight" of the sound but it is fairly neglible.

 

[Eli Brockway]

Pros: You cannot get blisters! They actually last a long time (well my plain guts do, anyway).

A bit over two weeks having my bass home with me, set up with CH Chordas, and getting in more than my fair share of practice/playing time every day (gotta make up for being two years without an upright somehow), and I have finally ended up with some blisters—and that only after jacking up the string height a bit (made the D string behave a little more nicely) and fooling around way-too-long with where and how I was plucking to see how much I could make everything in my living room rattle for an entire day.

This, compared to the Evah Pirazzis I played on the last couple of years in college (and an old set of Lycons before that, that got thrown out by a luthier because, when they took that bass in to get some cracks fixed, they had the strings changed—and forgot to relay my instructions not to toss out the strings that were on it), or any of the steel strings I've played on, where I'd have at least one massive blister showing up every week and blood blisters popping on me nearly every month...it's much more enjoyable.

Now it's just constantly reminding myself that the D string sounds fine further out, the woofiness and massive overtone presence is something that only I'm hearing, it's okay, I don't need to get rid of it, I don't need to get a Pistoy D to replace it with...

...yet.

 

[Jason Sypher]

A bit over two weeks having my bass home with me, set up with CH Chordas, and getting in more than my fair share of practice/playing time every day (gotta make up for being two years without an upright somehow), and I have finally ended up with some blisters—and that only after jacking up the string height a bit (made the D string behave a little more nicely) and fooling around way-too-long with where and how I was plucking to see how much I could make everything in my living room rattle for an entire day.

This, compared to the Evah Pirazzis I played on the last couple of years in college (and an old set of Lycons before that, that got thrown out by a luthier because, when they took that bass in to get some cracks fixed, they had the strings changed—and forgot to relay my instructions not to toss out the strings that were on it), or any of the steel strings I've played on, where I'd have at least one massive blister showing up every week and blood blisters popping on me nearly every month...it's much more enjoyable.

Now it's just constantly reminding myself that the D string sounds fine further out, the woofiness and massive overtone presence is something that only I'm hearing, it's okay, I don't need to get rid of it, I don't need to get a Pistoy D to replace it with...

...yet.

The blisters may be a bigger problem than the strings? I'm not sure I know any bass players that get regular blisters. That said, I think you hit on it at the end. There is no perfect string. There is no perfect bass. There is no perfect partner. But there are good relationships. Foster a good relationship with you strings, bass and partner and you will sleep better at night.

 

[eerbrev]

Since my last post on the subject in this thread, my setup has changed. I now have gut strings all the way across my instrument, but have had to give up on the low E that I bought. I think if I did nothing but orchestral playing it would have been *okay*, but because it wasn't the greatest of strings anything above the low G was very hard to play effectively, even Ab and G#. I do play some solo music for my own joy, so it was just not a workable solution for me. I'll also often play an A on the E string if I'm playing I-V-I-V etc on a low D - just saves a double string crossing.

So, now I have put my old Baldock wound E string back on until I can spare the scratch for a new string, and put a Eudoxa B string to replace the spirocore. Even though its tone matches more evenly with the guts, I still find it to sound more ... modern? in some ways? than the Spirocore did. I don't know if I could fully articulate it.

Vibrates the heck out of the floors, though, so I'm not going to complain!!

You know, everyone talks so much about tuning instability, but I've never really had an issue with it. Maybe it's because I'm not playing them under hot stage lights and humid clubs all the time? Even when I'm performing with orchestras I have very few issues with tuning instability.

 

[Eli Brockway]

The blisters may be a bigger problem than the strings? I'm not sure I know any bass players that get regular blisters. That said, I think you hit on it at the end. There is no perfect string. There is no perfect bass. There is no perfect partner. But there are good relationships. Foster a good relationship with you strings, bass and partner and you will sleep better at night.

"Soft skin" is the best answer I can come up with, and this exact issue is why I got recommended to switch to guts in the first place. "Regular strings" shred my fingers. Sure, at some point I'll get a callus build up, and then inevitably a blister comes underneath it, pops, and takes the callus along with, because it would almost always happen on a gig or in the middle of rehearsal, where I can't just stop and say "nope, sorry, can't play anymore, gotta find some superglue." I can already imagine that if I was playing on something like spirocores I would've already had some bad blisters, not the three tiny ones I only just received.

Only on the plucking hand, though, never had any on my left.

 

[eerbrev]

"Soft skin" is the best answer I can come up with, and this exact issue is why I got recommended to switch to guts in the first place. "Regular strings" shred my fingers. Sure, at some point I'll get a callus build up, and then inevitably a blister comes underneath it, pops, and takes the callus along with, because it would almost always happen on a gig or in the middle of rehearsal, where I can't just stop and say "nope, sorry, can't play anymore, gotta find some superglue." I can already imagine that if I was playing on something like spirocores I would've already had some bad blisters, not the three tiny ones I only just received.

Only on the plucking hand, though, never had any on my left.

I had this issue on electric when I played in a punk band. I figured out it was the sweat making my hands slippery, which created a feedback loop of gripping harder then getting sweatier.

My solve ended up being rock climbing chalk, of all things. used it for years!

 

[Povl Carstensen]

I had this issue on electric when I played in a punk band. I figured out it was the sweat making my hands slippery, which created a feedback loop of gripping harder then getting sweatier.

My solve ended up being rock climbing chalk, of all things. used it for years!

The question is where to find jazz climbing chalk.

 

[eerbrev]

The question is where to find jazz climbing chalk.

I was going to make a drug-based joke about "Jazz climbing chalk" but I feel like it might be in poor taste

 

[Jason Sypher]

I was going to make a drug-based joke about "Jazz climbing chalk" but I feel like it might be in poor taste

The Talk-Chalk

 

[Eli Brockway]

I had this issue on electric when I played in a punk band. I figured out it was the sweat making my hands slippery, which created a feedback loop of gripping harder then getting sweatier.

My solve ended up being rock climbing chalk, of all things. used it for years!

That is one among the many suggestions I've tried that didn't work, unfortunately. But, I worked at a camp in Colorado for a summer, so the climbing chalk came in useful anyways.

I collected a lot of suggestions from a lot of bassists, and finally one of them said "You should just switch to guts, they might be nicer on your hands." Already wanted to anyways, but I couldn't do it on a school bass back then.

Funnily enough, the one bassist that didn't agree with that suggestion after all was said and done was my teacher...who was the only one that was old enough (not that you'd be able to guess just off of his appearance) to have started and gotten his first jobs back when gut strings were the only ones available, and apparently he always got his worst blisters and such with guts, and steel strings were a godsend. Go figure.