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Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by paniak17, Jan 8, 2005.
I guess you were totally 'medic8ed' during the late '60s/early '70s...
Neither of them troll these forums looking for fools for which to suffer either. Your excuse?
I think if you do a search of my posting history, you will find the answer to that puerile statement.
alright let me restate my question,
i just want to play trippy stuff, stuff that will make ppl be like damn dude thats a hippy. **** like that. lol well ummm thanks?
p.s. i want to sound like "she said she said" by the beatles
Marty, just because you are a music teacher with lots of experience doesn't give you a right to be a jerk. As a teacher, you yourself should know that not everyone takes music as seriously as you do. Not everyone desires to take the time, or even has the time, to learn the intricacies of music theory. Who cares that you have been "a teacher for over a decade, and a fulltime pro player for many years, in many genres", as you yourself so eloquently, and may I add, vaingloriously, stated it? Does that matter to the hobbyist bass player who wants to know about psychedelic chords? No, it doesn't matter. I think that he just wants to know about psychedelic chords. So, instead of telling him how he is wrong in his ways for not taking the time to learn theory, how about you tell him what kind of chords you think sound psychedelic or trippy? With your years of pro experience and teaching, you should be able to tell him a few things about that.
You say that you "get annoyed by people who want to play bass, but cant be bothered putting in the hard yards to play MUSIC", and don't take the time to learn how to read? Dude, since when was playing music about being able to read notation? It's not about theory, or being able to read, or knowing what inversions of what triads will fit best with a certain chord progression. Music is about the experience. As a musician, and especially as a teacher of young, impressionable, growing musicians, you should never forget that. Right now, I'm studying for my Music Education degree to become a music teacher myself. I can only hope that I never develop the same elitist attitude that you seem to have. That would be such a shame, for my students, as well as myself.
I gotta admit, I understand where He's coming from. Yeah, it was a little rude, but I get 'old-fogey' too sometimes, especially with what I'd maybe percieve as 'young-minded' people. Just the other day there was a thread where a kid said he wanted advice on brands of PA gear, but sort of went on wanting a super-basic primer on audio amplification (like 'can I just plug speakers into a $99 mixer?'). Audio was my buisness for the years that I toured in music, so I had the same kind of reply as Mr. Forrer (well - not exactly. After I sort-of 'let'im have it' a little, I did explain about mic level, line level and speaker level... But then I told him to get on online and get some learnin' for himself!)
I played bass for a few years back in the late seventies, and had no interest in theory. Then I plunked an acoustic guitar for twenty years after that (just casual solo playing for friends and family). I always had someone around who could 'show me where to put my fingers', and teach me a couple new tunes a year (I'd forget a couple a year too) - or a couple I s'pose I learned from chord-books.
Anyway... Now I'm serious about becoming a musician. I will only reluctantly call myself a 'bass player' - and not a 'bassist' or 'musician' - before I can intuitively name every note on my entire neck; and know major and minor scales, and at least the triads within them, and their inversions for any key. Even 'bass player' feels funny to me; I tend to say 'I play the bass'.
My 'bassist goal' above is nothing to swagger about - it's absolute minimum to me. I'm just dinkin' around if I can't even accomplish that! (I must admit, though, Marty: the idea of learning to actually read music off of a staff is just a dreadful thought to me. I am kind of wondering if I can do well and be proud of myself without reading music! ..But I don't know - I get more inspired about this beautiful instrument all the time - maybe I can pull-it-off.)
What really irks me is when I hear someone somehow opposing theory with 'ya gotta just let it flow'; or almost more so when someone implies that working on theory somehow stunts your creativity, or that it's bad for you to make yourself practice - that is absolutely childish! Err.
Darn right your goal should be to just NOT think, and let the music pour out of your heart or whatever - but that's very most often earned with years of work and study. I'm not so presumptuous to think that I could acomplish it any other way(not in any reasonable amount of years, for sure!).
It does the kids and the lazier-of-us some good maybe to get knocked down to size by an old pro once in a while. Ya think?
...And while I'm at it: How'bout when someone STARTS a thread, seventeen TB'ers pour their hearts out in a bunch of posts to help, and the guy never chimes-in on his own thread again. Don't even get me started.
No, I wasn't born yet. But "psychedelic rock" is generally just prog rock. Otherwise it's "jam band" type stuff, or prog jazz w/ lots of singing, or something somewhere in that....Bermuda Trinangle of genres.
Sure, theory is a great thing -- I know lots -- but it's just a route to freedom on the instrument, not the freedom itself. Theory helps you identify what you hear in your head, and helps you discover things you wouldn't have heard on your own. But there's little you can get from theory that you couldn't get by playing all the time, except reading gigs. (OK, maybe that's not completely true...) But, as Pat Metheny memorably said somewhere, you have to practice your scales and chords and stuff enough that you don't have to think about them when you play.
Anyway, that may not have been topical.
What I do want to say is that, however experienced you are, however many fools you've been forced to suffer, why come into a thread just to bust on someone? Go someplace you find more pleasant! All he wanted was some unusual chords to try. Lay off the damn coffee, get more sleep, take a nice walk.
I think we're talking two different things...& even two different eras of Rock.
I'm assuming Paniak(the original poster) wants someting outta the '60s/early '70s 'cause-
...he just restated he's looking for something like "She Said She Said" by The Beatles.
To me, that is an example of "Psychedelic" Rock; there are other examples from Revolver, too. Any of those tunes with 'backwards guitars' or guitars sounding like sitars, etc. There's a thread buried here at Talk Bass about "The Best Psychedelic Albums"...stuff like The Stones' Their Satanic Magesties Request made the list.
(& tunes like "Paint It Black", "Mother's Little Helper", etc).
It is not Prog-Rock(bands like Yes, ELP, King Crimson, etc).
It is not necessarily '60s/'70s "Jam Band" stuff, either...although some of the those bands probably released a "Psyhedelic" album; they had to.
My suggestion to Paniak is-
Listen & break down what was done in those tunes.
It's in the triangle, though.
My exposure to you is from this thread alone. And based on your comments here you haven't shown your participation is worthy of my time to "search your postings".
Additionally - if your case in this thread is really to influence people to become more musically educated - your original post does nothing towards achieving that end. Do you disagree with this?
Dude, learn the stuff you want to inspire you... then you'll know why it's so "trippy man"
Blue Cheer on bad acid is the most frightening , yet inspiring thing ive ever experienced.
Ha, that is proof that Blue Cheer are a good source of inspiration.
Probaly the only thing scarier on acid is Captain Beefheart--------------------------------- WhOA , WaY TriPPy , LiKE , WHoaAOAOAOAOA
Sorry, Wayne Shorter (saxophonist from Weather Report) thought of some pretty crazy stuff from before and after he was in Weather Report (IMO, Zawinul did most of the crazy thinking in Weather Report).
Many people don't know that he was well recognized in the later traditional jazz era. He was on Bitches' Brew (Miles Davis), which is where I believe he met Joe Zawinul (also well known before Weather Report) and started Weather Report.
When he wasn't in a situation where he was not at equal par with the keyboardist or pianist (after he hit the scene and before Bitches' Brew and after Weather Report), he controlled virtually every aspect of his keyboard player. Right down to what chord voicings they used. (This all should be in present tense because he is still performing today. He has a regular gig in New York, but I've heard it's pretty [email protected]$$ed). The keyboardist has to play the chord exactly the way Shorter played it when he originally composed it. You can see this in Infant Eyes, a ballad composed and performed by Shorter off the same album as Speak No Evil:
There's this one song called Speak No Evil (which I had the opportunity to perform). The chorus progresses in a series of minor chords, and eventually culminates in Bb7(#9#11#13), then goes back to the verse.
Though you could write a more psychadelic chord if that was your objective, few chords that are written *well* into music are this psychadelic.
Note: The transcription is from www.lucaspickford.com. It is a little bit cut-off because of TB's file-attatchment restrictions.
Tritones (or sharp 11s) can create some cool sounding chordal work. The lydian scale, in short, is a major scale with a sharp 4. Experiment with that. This might have been mentioned earlier, but moving triads up a whole step can sound cool, like a D triad with a C in the bass.
Not necessarily chords, but the diminished scale makes for some very "trippy" sounding licks. Take your root note and go up half step whole step half step whole step..... Now work on descending patterns over that scale, such as 9 8 11 10 7 6 9 8 5 4 7 6, 9 representing the top note of the scale. That's a very cool sound.
One more thing. Play a minor 9 chord voiced with the flat 3 and the 9 next to eachother. Now move this chord up 3 half steps and keep the bass note the same. A way to look at is is that you're playing a major 7 chord over the tritone. This can be heard on the basslobster.com clip of Me'Shell NdegeOcello.
I hope this will help you find some cool sounds.
You could also experiment w/ the whole-tone scale, hungarian minor, etc. and corresponding chords.
And of course a tritone sub when you're walking on 4 or 2.
Marty doesn't need my help - he's big enough and certainly ugly enough to take care of himself.
However, I know him personally and just have to chip in to say that he's a straight-up bloke, a fine bassist and I believe not taken to 'being a jerk', as is put here.
I'm guessing his first post wasn't meant to be nasty - often the way on these boards - can be misread. Subsequent post, reaction to other's posts.
Cheers from Aotearoa.