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Pulled a Speaker from my Acme....

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Pre EB, Oct 24, 2002.


  1. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Just to take a look inside.... Boy is this cab a value! It looks like it takes a lot of work to just assemble the thing- much more to design it. That bracing business is serious and the mid is in it's own little chamber. I pulled the top left 10 and so I couldn't see how the tweeter is put in, but I gotta tell you this thing is well built! Even the rear port tubes were glued secure to the handles. I just wish the 10s were cast-frame. If anyone knows what model they are, let me know. Perhaps Eminence makes a "pro" version that is cast-frame.
    On the Acme site there is an article about the unimportance of port placement, and it's probably technically correct, but I think there is room to put all three facing the front. That would help for outdoor gigs and put more of the sound out front.
    My brother also has a B-4 and the other day, it was literally making our stomachs feel funny! We had it near the wall (about 24"), facing sideways to the room, and when you were behind the drums (in the corner) it seemed a lot louder than when you were in front of the cab. I think Andy should put the ports in front to make everyone's tummy rumble!
    This thing ain't nothing like my Hartke 410XL!! My Boogies are great, but I'm even more impressed with the Acme now that I looked inside:D
     
  2. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    I believe the drivers are Eminence, not sure which Eminence "standard" model they are closest to, but I CAN tell you that I recently put Eminence Kappa Pro 10's in my Aguilar cab (w/ cast frames), and they ROCK. Heavy as hell, but they sound great, and have tremendous power handling ability. Less than $90 each at partsexpress.com.
     
  3. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Yeah, they are custom Eminence drivers. I e-mailed Eminence and they sent a link to the Kappa Pro. 500W handling!?! Anyway, I too wonder what standard model they are closest to. Gotta tell you the Acme rocks. My bro is probably going to sell his 410XLT (less than ten gigs on it) and only run the Acme when he needs a 410! He does have a wealth of top notch bass gear when needed. If we combined rigs, we'd have something like 24-10s and 4-15s being pushed with 4000+ watts:D I really do want to give that train that goes by the house a taste of it's own medicine!:eek:
     
  4. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    nice...

    i dont really have anything to add to the thread, but just wanted to acknowledge another satisfied Acme owner... :D
     
  5. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA

    What was wrong with the original speakers? Is the cab overall better with the Kappas than the originals?
     
  6. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Everytime that URL comes up, I see
    "part SEXpress.com".
    What the heck is wrong with me?:D
     
  7. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    :D :eek:

    PleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPlease let me go with you!

    I wanna see that!

    Do you mind bringing that by my house!

    I live on a busy road with a train not to far away and sometimes I wish I could show them what its like!

    Peace
    Nick
     
  8. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Joker,
    Have you looked inside your 210? C'mon, I know you have! Pretty cool, huh?
    My Boogies are about the heaviest duty things I've dealt with, but inside it's just a box. Andy sure put alot of work into those things. I wonder what the EA transmission-line stuf looks like inside.
    I've got a buddy with some Mirage M5 home speakers that are two-way with a 6", I think, woofer that put out an incredible amount of bass response. Bi-amped with 2 Adcom amps. We talked about taking them apart, but they cost way too much $$$ for us monkeys to fool with. They use the transmission line porting thingy too. Oh yeah, the Mirages fire out the front and the rear- two woofers and tweeters. I'd like a bass rig that does that. Or maybe out of all four sides. Or on a stand and out of six sides. Put it in the middle of the venue? Think about THAT and make a mess!
     
  9. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Ok nick. Here's the plan: I take all the stuff and hop that train to Fl, get to your house and set up combining your stuff as well, give it to the train with no foreplay. The only problem I can think of is how to get back after derailing that sucker!
    Here's the rig. 2 Acme 410s, 3 Boogie RR15s, JBL 15 cab, Boogie 210, Goliath 2, 410 XLT, Hartke 410 XL, Goliath Jr., 210XLT, Metro combo, WT800, QSC MX1500, Mackie 1400i, QSC USA 850, Alembic pre, and a couple of other heads for back-up. We just have to figger a way to combine it all.
    Wait a minute, that = 26-10s + 4-15s! AND whatever you've got!
     
  10. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    I got 4-10s (Eden 210XST!:D and Eden Nemesis 210 combo), and a custom self built 2-15 cab that can handle a poop load of power!

    I dont have much as far as powering those suckers goes. Just a malfunctioning Hartke 3500 in need of repairs and the 225 watt internal amp in the Nemesis combo.

    On a side note, my Eden 210 XST is built really solidly inside and out as well. I took out the back plate to remove the fuse and disable the tweeter and while it was open I took a peek inside and saw what I would describe as the worlds littlest bomb shelter.

    (Yes I did say littlest.)

    Peace
    Nick
     
  11. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    With all that stuff combined, a new company could be formed: DUB DEMOLITION CO.
     
  12. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Why? Is there something inherently superior about cast-frame drivers? Can you tell me what it is?

    It is correct. If you truly acknowledged this, you'd realize that the second sentence is silly.

    It sounded louder because you were in the corner. Trust me. Not because of where the ports are.

    So, let me get this straight:

    - I have this Acme cab which has drivers and a box design which is atypical of most bass cabs out there

    - I love it!

    - But if Andy would make it like those other cabs by pointlessly putting the ports in front, and using "cast-frame" drivers which are all designed specifically for those other cab designs that are so typical and I don't like as much, this thing would really rock!

    Come on guys. Andy knows what he's doing. If there's something you don't like about the Acme cabs, it's by design, and stuffing other drivers in there will only make things worse. (Eminence doesn't make a cast-frame 10" driver suitable for a box tuned to 30Hz, at least not that I can find).
     
  13. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Here's why the port placement makes a difference to me:
    "In fact, a bass-reflex enclosure, at the frequencies where the port contributes to the system’s output, is a pressure device, as opposed to a wave device. So the interaction of the enclosure and the port, and the port's position with respect to the woofer, itself, are unaffected by any directional activity. Direction is utterly unimportant. By way of illustration, examine another pressure-related model, a balloon. As you inflate a balloon, does it expand on one direction only, or in all directions at once?"

    This was taken from the website. I understand the concept of the box being a pressure device, but the actual sound comes from the release of the pressure- correct? It seems to me, and in my experience, that at an outdoor gig where the sound is easily dissipated, it only makes sense to have most of the waves aimed at the audience.

    "Only after a port’s output leaves the cabinet, and enters the environment, does it assume the characteristics of a wave, one of which is direction of propagation. Direction does assume importance when speaking of waves."

    Are not these "waves" our music? Point 'em at the patrons! Indoors, I would aggree that it doesn't matter that much. Stuff bounces off the walls.
    As far as the cast frame speaker comment, I just like 'em better. The looks and heft, I guess. No scientific or practical reason. Shoot, the stamped frame drivers in my Hartke have taken more than their fair share of abuse but when you hold an EVM, it just feels like higher quality.
     
  14. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    :rolleyes:

    Wonderful use of selective quoting. The rest of the paragraph is as follows:

     
  15. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Have you ever tried playing with your rig facing away from you? Can you hear it as well when you do? I'm not a physicist but there are an awful lot of great cabs with their ports in front and it has been my experience that at an outdoor show, it makes a difference. I would imagine that the "system performance" being referenced is acurate reproduction of low frequencies. Not aiming them.
    I have no problem with the Acme at all! I love the thing and I use it whenever I can, but there IS room for the ports in front.
    In my world I would allow a flat response to 1hz and an efficiency rating of a million or something:D
     
  16. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Did I ever say anything about the effects of which way the drivers point? NO. They produce the sound at frequencies *above* those that the port produces, and much of this is directional (increasingly so with frequency).

    Why do you mention this, I wonder?

    I can't tell if you're defending front-ported cabs? There are an awful lot of great rear- (and side-) ported cabs too.

    So then, you've played the same concert with two otherwise identical cabs, except for where the ports were located?

    Now, some cabs are tuned to higher frequencies than the Acmes are, so it might be more important where the ports are located. But, with Acmes, it really doesn't matter. You can trust that both Andy and I know this, or you can take your lesser knowledge and understanding of speaker systems and sound propagation and "decide" that you don't "believe" us for whatever reason you want, and there's nothing I can do about that.
     
  17. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.
    Geshel is right ( but he does not have to be so mean about it:eek: ). The air in the box itself radiates creating the lower frequencies. The higher the frequency the more directional it becomes and vice versa. Using your own experience, play your rig and stand behind it. Now notice that all you can hear / feel is the bass frequencies and you cant hear all the higher frequencies, why you ask because bass frequencies are omnidirectional and they propagate evenly away from the source.
     
  18. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Can you explain to me how I was mean? Really, I'd like to know. Thanks.
     
  19. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.
    Just jackin with you man. Dont make me come over there:D :p
     
  20. Firstly, i have a (former) Nemesis that i put an Eminence KappaPro 400w rms cast driver in. It is in"f'n"credible. I a/b'd it to a GS112 and it surpassed it in low end and a bit more in the mid-mids for articulation. the best $$ ive spent on a cab (speaker) yet! I highly reccommend the Kappa Pro (or the kaapa stadard's too, the Pro is very heavy)

    Secondly, PreEB, i would very much like to hear an Acme cab one day in person. If there were ever the chance (as you are in Denton and Im in Plano) I could meet you with my bass and amp for a few minutes, I'd truly appreciate it. I'd even bring my Kappa Pro loaded Nemesis for kicks :)

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