Push / Pull pot too high. Dremel the best answer?

Discussion in 'Hardware, Setup & Repair [BG]' started by NealBass, Oct 4, 2016.


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  1. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    [UPDATE]- Problem solved. See: Post #47

    I'm pretty sure the best answer to my problem is to dremel, but I want to check and see if there are other options I might not have thought of.
    I replaced my wiring harness on my 2 Rickenbackers with a reproduction vintage wiring harness. The harness also has Mono / Rick-O-Sound on a push / pull pot. The body cavity is a touch too shallow and the push / pull is bottoming out, leaving the pickguard sticking up about 1/8th" off the top of the body. I was going to dremel a little pit, inside the control cavity to allow the push / pull to not bottom out. There are no washers on the underside of the pickguard to remove. I just wanted to check, before I take a dremel to the control cavity, that I'm not missing an alternate route (lol). I'm guessing I'll need to mark the spot to dremel, too. I thought maybe putting ink on the bottom of the push / pull box, and installing the pickguard for a second, to make a mark where I need to drill?
    Any advice is welcome.

    IMG_2053.jpg
    IMG_2103.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
  2. Gilmourisgod

    Gilmourisgod

    Jun 23, 2014
    Cape Cod MA
    Yep, Dremel job, or just use a Forster bit or router for a cleaner job of it. Excruciatingly careful kind of goes without saying. I've done similar by putting a piece of double stick tape on the pot back, all inked up to transfer. A little nerve racking on a brand new bass, but since you apparently never sell your Rics, minor mods aren't a resale issue. Maybe shield the cavity while you are at it?

    Edit:
    Another way- take the harness off the pickguard, screw PG back onto body, run a drill bit down through the push/pull pot hole in the PG, careful to keep square and level, you should have a drill mark aligned with the pot on the cavity floor. Use that mark to center the Forster. Drill a tiny bit and keep checking the fit, if it's a standard 1" deep control cavity, you only have about 1/4" of wood between it and the back. Drilling through the back would be BAD. One of the pro luthiers may have another clever idea. I wouldn't drill this by hand either way, a drill press with a depth stop, or a router would be safer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
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  3. 202dy

    202dy Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2006
    Why dig a hole in the basement when the roof leaks?

    Modify the harness.

    Leave the guitar alone.
     
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  4. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    See? This is why I started this thread. I never would have thought to remove the harness and mark the spot throught the pot hole. That's (as you New Englanders would say) wicked shmat. Thanks for the tip, bud!
     
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  5. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    I agree completely. But how to modify the harness? I noticed the push / pull has 2 tabs bent over to (I assume) hold the bottom pot cover on. I was thinking of bending the tabs back to have a look inside the pot. Maybe there is a way to shorten the push / pull?
     
  6. Nev375

    Nev375

    Nov 2, 2010
    Missouri
    Meybe find a smaller push pull pot and replace it?
     
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  7. iiipopes

    iiipopes Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    NO!!! Please don't dremel out any wood. You will cause other problems with the wood being too thin as a result.

    I ran into this problem ten years ago. I couldn't find a suitable push-pull. Then RIC started selling its first generation push-pull in its boutique. It had a smaller switch body that fit the depth of the routing. Alas, RIC quit selling it in favor of a simpler switch that wired in as a bypass to the .0047 capacitor to the bridge pickup.

    You will have to go surfing to find the small bodied switch, as I did for subsequent installations on the other RIC instruments I own.
     
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  8. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    Thanks guys. The Hunt for Tiny Push / Pull begins. I'll start shopping today. The more I think about it, the less I want to drill on these babies. They are my most prized possessions.

    The real annoying thing (to me) is, I don't even need a push / pull. I use Rick-O -Sound exclusively. I don't use mono at all. I guess I'm thinking more about the person that owns the bass after me, not having a mono jack available. It would be nice to have both.

    I guess another answer is to just leave it and be careful? It's not gigging, or anything. I just play them every day in my living room with headphones on. I could put a foam gasket under the gap, to stop the pickguard from moving.

    Here's a couple more shots of the culprit. It's too bad the 'box' on top of the pot doesn't come off...hmmm.

    IMG_1902 (2).jpg

    IMG_1901 (5).jpg
     
  9. iiipopes

    iiipopes Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    Huh? Standard 4001/3 wiring is two jacks: one mono and one Ric-O-Sound. I used to have a '76 4001, and it has it. All modern 4003's, with the exception of a couple of the "vintage" models are wired this way.

    The real solution is to have a real Ric-O-Sound with the two jacks installed, and then have the new RIC push-pull switch to bypass the capacitor.
     
  10. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    Yeah, the 4001V63 is a vintage re-issue. Mono jack only.

    But I did find this:

    Clipboard01.jpg

    Clipboard02.jpg
     
  11. iiipopes

    iiipopes Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    That is what I was talking about. It does not have the capability to do wiring options. All it does is function as a simple switch to bypass the .0047 capacitor on inline to the bridge pickup.
     
  12. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    I'll have to check how the mono / stereo wiring works on my harness. I thought I could maybe have the top switch going to mono on the jack and the bottom switch going to stereo on the jack. I'm kind of useless at this sort of stuff, so please school me.
     
  13. Gilmourisgod

    Gilmourisgod

    Jun 23, 2014
    Cape Cod MA
    Neal
    I bought an OEM push/pull 4003 wiring harness from POTR, the pot looks smaller than the one you have, probably the one in the link you posted. I'll measure the depth to see if it's shallower than what you have. I know the stock ones fit in a standard cavity depth, so smaller makes sense. I'll measure it tonight unless somebody beats me to it. Obviously better to avoid mods if possible. Wicked Pissah!
     
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  14. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    Lol! Okay, so if it's the right height (thanks for checking that, btw) the push pull acts like 2 stacked pots, with a switch between the 2, correct? I should (if the resistance is correct) be able to wire the top one to my stereo out and the bottom one to my mono out?
     
  15. Gilmourisgod

    Gilmourisgod

    Jun 23, 2014
    Cape Cod MA
    I'm far from a wire head, but I'm guessing the wiring will be identical to what you have, may be as simple as switching wires from big pot to small pot one at a time so you don't lose track.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
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  16. Why not get another pickguard, a.0047 cap and a mini toggle? Wire the cap to one side and a plain wire to the other. Easily reversible without harming the pickguard. You can get a thin Plexiglas sheet at most hardware stores for under $10. Drill two or three holes in line with the pickguard screws, screw the two guards together with the Ric on top, and trace the outline. Drill a small hole in the new guard for the toggle switch wherever you choose to place it. You even have the option with the new guard of moving the neck pickup back to the early '70's position of 1/2 inch closer to the neck. Paint the underside of the plexiglas guard, that way you still have the shine and the paint won't flake off. Hope this helps.
     
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  17. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    I see what you're saying, but that's a lot of work to install a switch that I don't really use. I thought about adding another switch, but it seems a bit much, to me. Thanks for the idea, though! BTW, my pickups are already at the 1/2" neck position :).

    4001v63.jpg
     
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  18. Aceonbass

    Aceonbass Commercial User

    Apr 10, 2004
    Parkville,Mo.
    I wish I had known about this thread earlier, as there is much bad incorrect info. First off....that push-pull is for switching the output from mono to stereo, so the way-outta-spec 330K pot that CTS makes for RIC won't work. Second, the old Alpha pot that RIC used to use was EXACTLY the same size, requiring 1" of cavity depth. Third, removing part of the switch casing won't make it shorter, but it will open it up to dust and debris that will cause the switch to malfunction at some point. Fourth, there is no push-pull pot I'm aware of that will perform this function. I've looked. And Fifth, if the pot doesn't fit in the cavity, then the cavity is in he minority of 4001/3 cavities that are shallower than 1". Simply Dremmel the area after marking it as another poster previously mentioned. DO NOT use a Forstner bit. The point that centers it is about 1/8" long, and could poke through the back of the bass.
     
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  19. NealBass

    NealBass Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Ontario
    Cool. Thanks for the info. I wondered about the CTS pot, as it has 5 lugs and the one I have has 6. I guess it's off to dremel then. Thanks!
     
  20. Aceonbass

    Aceonbass Commercial User

    Apr 10, 2004
    Parkville,Mo.
    Don't worry Neal. You have plenty of meat in the body for this operation. When I have a RIC bass here for major mods, I actually enlarge the whole control cavity to 1/4" smaller than the pickguard outline to a depth of 1 1/16". This gives plenty of room for modded wiring, and makes it much easier to stuff everything under the guard when you're putting it back together.
     
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