Put your lips to this!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by HeavyDuty, Jun 24, 2002.

  1. HeavyDuty

    HeavyDuty Supporting Curmudgeon Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Jun 26, 2000
    Suburban Chicago, IL
  2. if they sounded decent and weren't outrageously expensive i'm sure they would do fine. but for me they look too much like bubble letters
  3. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    Imagine... a stack of 4 8x10's... that weighs 10 lbs!
  4. ihixulu

    ihixulu Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    getting warmer
    Imagine playing an outdoor gig.... the wind picks up and your whole rig flies away.
  5. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    Okay, on a serious note, that thing is a joke for the bass reproduction we all want. There has to be some sort of solid piece of cabinet in a speaker system for bass to be created. It just doesn't come out of a speaker. It's the vibration created by the speaker, then magnified by the hardness of the wood in the cabinet. There's no wood, just plastic, and theres no ports, and the plastic has air gaps in it where it fills up, so bass in probably non-existant.

    Now on a less serious note...

    Imagine if you inflated in with helium and it was a floated rig, whoa....gimmick written all over it:D
  6. Christopher


    Apr 28, 2000
    New York, NY
    While an inflatable rig is probably out of the question, I'd like to see a collapsible cab that lets you disconnect and pop out the speakers and then tear the cab down into flat panels. Bulk is as bad as weight when it comes to moving those things.
  7. that would be sweet if they could make it work for bass but i dought they will
  8. chucko58


    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    Does there? Really??

    All you need is a wavefront. I actually witnessed a plasma speaker many years ago - no moving parts, unless you counted the plasma's working fluid.

    All too often, speaker designers are "boxed in" by their preconceptions.
  9. geshel


    Oct 2, 2001
    It needs to be stiff enough and non-resonant enough to contain the back wave from the woofers (otherwise all the bass frequencies cancel out - plug into a raw driver hanging from a hook some time and witness the lack of bass).

    Nothing inflatable will fit this description. Sure, composites etc can do it with very little weight. But by definition things that are inflatable aren't stiff.
  10. JoelEoM


    Mar 11, 2002
    Lancaster, PA
    theres company right now called FLAT(Focused Linear Array Technology, or something like that) they use thick metal plates, in a semi circle type array. NO cone momvement whatsoever, and the plate assemblies handle something like 4000 watts. im looking right now for the link. the frequency responses are absolutely insane for what they are. you dont NEED to use subs with them, but the company recommends that you, simply because since theres no cone movement, there is no air movement, and bass frequencies are just not felt, which is how low frequencies are percieved for the most part anyway. our church was looking at them for a little bit, and the company was going to fly 2 representatives out west to demo for us, and they used us since we're east coast, and they want to get some reps out this way. still looking, ill post that link when i find it.
  11. geshel


    Oct 2, 2001
    Uh - something has to move to create the sound. :) If the total area is large, they won't move much (look at electrostatics (Quad, Martin-Logan, Acoustat) and planar magnetics (Magnepan) for examples of this). But if they put out in the bass, they have to move just as much air to create the same SPL as any other speaker.

    All I could find on the web for them was this:


    They look to me just like an array of ribbon speakers. Specs (7 octaves, resistive load) sounds like them too. 7 octaves BTW is 160Hz-20kHz.

    When you use panel speakers like that, you still get rolloff in the bass frequencies. For instance my Maggies are 42"x20"x2", and so the bass starts to roll off at 70Hz or so (has to do with the size of the speakers relative to the wavelength). But it's only a 6dB/octave rolloff, so they'll still do 30Hz pretty solidly - they won't blast the bass, but it's there. The bigger planar speakers (MG-20, larger electrostatics) have this rolloff start lower (40-50Hz) so they'll produce reasonable output at 20Hz.

    This website talks about a 4-panel by 4-panel array of these FLAT things, which would be 12' x 12'. This would let them produce pretty deep bass.

    One other quality of dipole speakers (like ribbons or conventional speakers with no box, only mounted on a flat panel) is that they don't put out much sound to the sides at low frequencies (since it cancels). So the FLAT idea is pretty cool for sound reinforcement since they pretty much beam the sound out to the audience (and back at the stage, however!!).
  12. JoelEoM


    Mar 11, 2002
    Lancaster, PA
    ah, geshel, you beat me to it. thats all i could find as well, although i have seen something else on them, a few months ago. so they only go down to 160? wow. i thought for sure they were much lower than that. how do you mean they produce sound to the front as well as back? exactly that? the way i read, i thought sound would come from the front only. eh, i wish i had time for more questions, but i have to go to work.
  13. TRU


    Apr 12, 2002
    Northern Europe
    Lookie here:

    One review said that these sound surprisingly good. I've been thinking of buying a pair just for laughs.
  14. lneal


    Apr 12, 2002
    Lee County, Alabama
    Just trying to keep things straight.

    huh?? Really, you want the enclosure to be as non-resonant as possible. That's why all quality speaker cabinets are as stiff as possible. There is a high end audio company that makes cabs out of aluminum! And yet another that uses concrete! Speakers don't create vibrations, they create rapid changes in air pressure, aka sound, which may create vibrations and get the law called on ya!
  15. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    Yeah, I noticed that after I posted my reply, that statement was rather sketchy to what I was trying to say. I concede on behalf of my own error and you bringing it up.

    No flame taken.:D
  16. geshel


    Oct 2, 2001
    Sorry, both the 160 and the radiation pattern are assumptions on my part. If they only go up to 10kHz then 7 octaves would cover 80Hz. Also they could have chambers on the back to absorb the rear wave - but then they wouldn't get some of the benefits of dipoles.

    Yep that's what I meant - dipole speakers radiate in both directions, because they just have the transducer (flat panel usually) stretched between two supports but otherwise hanging in open air. The sound coming out of the back is 180 degrees out of phase with that coming out the front.

    Speakers that have additional drivers on the back of the (closed) boxes, that radiate in phase with the ones on the front, are called bipolar (examples Mirage, Definitive Technologies).