1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

PZ-Pre for Full Circle and Ehrlund?

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Adagio, Jan 17, 2012.


  1. Adagio

    Adagio

    Jul 21, 2011
    Quebec City
    Hi!
    I'm currently looking for a preamp for my Full Circle and Ehrlund (though I have the Ehrlund preamp already). I'd like the FC to cut through the mix at higher volume so I can hear myself live, but the acoustic sound of the Ehrlund is so much better as for the tone I want to project so I'd like to blend both pickups.

    So my question is: Does any of you have tried the Radial Tonebone PZ-Pre with the Full Circle or the Ehrlund or both simultaneously? Since the PZ-Pre have a single EQ for both channels, I'm not sure I'd want both channel to run through the same settings. Is there any way to bypass the EQ on channel 2?

    My other choice would be the Fishman Platinium for the FC, but then I would need something else to blend both pickups.
    Or perhaps I should run my FC through my amp only and send the pure Ehrlund signal to the PA directly?

    Any advice?
     
  2. iiipopes

    iiipopes Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    I use an fdeck to buffer the signal, provide phase reversal when necessary to quell feedback, and to tame rumble. Then I let the eq on my Carvin MB-12 (bass, treble, two bands of parametric, compressor, etc.) do the work, including a built-in line out with level, pre or post eq, and ground lift.
     
  3. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    I've experimented with both the HPF/ Buffer Pre amp and the Headway EDB-1. Neither of them worked as well as the Ehrlund Preamp. It's absolutely the best option for the Ehrlund Pickup.

    I have not used the PZ Pre, My sense is that the Headway EDB-1 would work better, but you're still limited to a single channel EQ section.


    The Fishman Pro Platinum works great for the Full Circle and a lot of other pickups. The Ehrlund Pre amp works best for the Ehrlund Pickup.

    That definitely would work, but you'd be missing out on the wonderful sound the Ehrlund Linear Microphone produces into an amplifier
     
  4. Adagio

    Adagio

    Jul 21, 2011
    Quebec City
    I'm using the Ehrlund preamp but the thing is I'm getting a lot of feedback even at smooth drums volume. I can't play with my band through my amp unless my drummer plays Cajon instead of drums. That's very frustrating, the only way I've found to use my Ehrlund is to play with in-ear monitoring instead of my amp (and I spent many hours trying to position the Ehrlund first). Hence the reason why I want to back it up with the FC...
     
  5. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Adagio,
    If the Full Circle works in this setting, it's possible that that pickup just handles the ambient sounds coming from the drums better, since it's better at canceling them out. I did notice that from your user profile you are using a Peavy Max Bas 450. Since that amp was intended primarily for Bass Guitar, it's input impedance and EQ section is not able to suppress feedback, correct phase, or roll low frequency feed back out, which ultimately could solve feedback problems as well. I'm not suggesting that you buy a new amplifier, but it might be productive to borrow some ones Acoustic Image or Euphonic Audio amp to see if there is a difference since the provide those features. Just a thought.

    Ric
     
  6. Adagio

    Adagio

    Jul 21, 2011
    Quebec City
    Thanks for your input Ric, it is much appreciated.
    You are correct I'm using the Max 450 with my DB, but what I'm trying to acheive is to get a piezo pre-amp in order to bypass the pre-amp of the Max. My gig is half EB and half DB so I don't want to carry two amps (plus the instruments!). Moreover I'm already using the pre-amp for my EB, so I don't want to re-EQ before every tune. The PZ-Pre and the Platinium both have notch, high pass filter and phase control. Plugging the output of my preamp (to be) in the effect return of my amp should solve the issues you mentioned. Right?

    FWIW, I did try another smaller bass amp and also to run my DB through our PA but the feedback problem remains. I might try other acoustic amps to hear the difference though, but at this point I'd rather not to aquire (and carry) more gear.
     
  7. Greg Clinkingbeard

    Greg Clinkingbeard

    Apr 4, 2005
    Kansas City area
    KC Strings
    Feedback at lower volume sounds like a problem with the bass/pickup more than the amp. That's been my experience. When the bass is happy, even and mated to an appropriate pickup you should be able to use most any amp at lower volumes without too much trouble. The Full Circle usually gets high marks as working well. Is it installed correctly with NO gaps between the non-threaded side and bridge?

    I'm with Ric that your amp is not DB friendly. However, many guys rarely, if ever, use all those extra knobs Ric mentioned. ;)I love the Headway pre and rarely use the HPF.
    The amp can only work with what comes into the front of it so confirm that first.
     
  8. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Greg,
    Yeah, you're right, although I do use the phase switch pretty often, especially if I need a quick fix. The hi pass filter is something I use occasionally, but a little roll off goes a long way, once you start cuttin' every thing below 80 hz you've lost a lot of the sound in the lower register of the instrument. What's really easier, IMHO is to let the mains do the heavy lifting if you're in a high volume situation. In those cases my amp is truly just an on stage monitor, but if the bands really loud on stage, then even that can get ugly in a hurry.

    Ric
     
  9. Greg Clinkingbeard

    Greg Clinkingbeard

    Apr 4, 2005
    Kansas City area
    KC Strings
    Adagio,
    I see we posted at the same time. You're on the right track to get a nice preamp for DB and run it into the effects return.

    Uncletoad started a nice thread a few years back on the subject of eliminating feedback that may help. Do a search. Dam**d if I can find it.

    Ric,
    I may have misunderstood Adagio's question, thinking he was playing at lower volume levels. Once it gets cranking in the mains and we're dealing with monitors and such it's different.
    When I owned the AI amps I never used the stuff and with the Headway the only thing I ever touch is the HPF. I try not to touch the crazy loud gigs either.:D
     
  10. Adagio

    Adagio

    Jul 21, 2011
    Quebec City
    I found it! And I'll keep that in mind.


    Hey clink, my FC adjusters are not touching anything at the tip; the bridge feet are completely pierced (see through). Is that an issue?

    I guess my best move right now would be to try to borrow a PZ-Pre from the music store for the week-end and see if it helps. I'll keep you posted!
     
  11. Adagio

    Adagio

    Jul 21, 2011
    Quebec City
    Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to borrow a PZ-Pre so I finally decided to try my FC directly through my Max. And guess what? Zero feedback! I got at least twice of the output of the Ehrlund and was finally able to hear myself with the band!

    As much as I like the sound of the Ehrlund (and I've tried almost everything to make it work with my amp), after playing live with the FC I can't imagine going back to the trouble I've been through. I know a lot of TBassers are in love with the Ehrlund and I'm glad it works for well you, but with my setup it just can't compete.

    Back to my original topic, I figured out that it would be better for me to have two parallel channels rather than blending them with a device such as the PZ-Pre or the Headway. Therefore, I ordered a Fishman platinium to EQ my FC. I'll then have to get another DI/EQ for the Ehrlund once my honeymoon with the FC will be over, I guess!
     
  12. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Congratulations, you've found the right pickup and amp combination for you're gigging situation there's certainly nothing wrong with that!

    We all have to stay within the reality of what we can afford and the bands that we perform with. Personally, the Ehrlund just works great for me, even in high volume situations, provided I don't have to be right on top of the amp. The Full Circle would work way better for that kind of situation.

    Well, with the Fishman Pro Platinum you have the pre amp that's optimized to the Full Circle's specs. Ehrlund's pre amps will get you the best sound with the Ehrlund pickup.
    Once you are able to afford a different amplifier, with two channels of EQ, like the EA Micro, or EA Doubler, or Acoustic Image then you should just be able to plug in the Ehrlund, connect it to the Ehrlund Pre Amp. and start to play. IMHO

    Ric
     
  13. Adagio

    Adagio

    Jul 21, 2011
    Quebec City
    Well, my main concern was to be able to hear my intonation through my amp / monitors. Now that I solved it, I don't really care about the timbre I have on stage. I still got my Ehrlund as a separate channel to go through the PA for recording / in-ear monitoring / the audience.

    But yes, I know my priorities will switch and that I will eventually need a new amp, the Doubler seems like a pretty cool one. But then I'd also like to buy a mic, new cabs, a mic preamp, new strings, a better bow (GAS tendencies here). Instead I'll try to focus on my playing for a while!

    Thanks for your time, it's much appreciated! :)
     

Share This Page