QSC audio / Behringer

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by david_l_perry, Aug 26, 2003.

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  1. Just purchased a new Behringer EP1500 power amp to go with an SWR Grand Prix as a backup to my SWR SM900 head


    The Behringer runs 1500w at 4ohm bridged
    and cost a startlingly low £250 brand new...!

    Heres the interesting bit...As most people spot about Behringer...the reverse engineering bit seems to have gone on again

    The shop I purchased it from stripped one of the amps down when they came in to see how they are made up, as they assumed build quality must have been sacrificed to come in at that price...not so
    The EP1500 is identical to the QSC audio PLX range of amps, right down to the mini dip switches....but all for £250.

    I will let you guys know how it performs once its been 'tried and tested' for a wee length of time. Build quality sure looks OK

  2. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I think you must mean the RMX range of amps. I doubt their components are identical to the RMX's - they're probably built to less precise tolerances, thus reducing the cost of apparently identical parts. Anyway it's much easier to sell products that cheap when you've got no R&D costs...

  3. Cheers quite right its the RMX not PLX
    My mistake...just looked in more detail at the RMX...its just a bit similar....

    seems a bit unethical to me but can't see how Behringer could make an identical copy without co-operation from QSC..who knows

  4. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    They've done all their other gear without any cooperation from the companies whose products they're cloning. Mackie were so uncooperative that they took Behringer to court for copying their mixing desks. Unusually, Behringer lost and had to modify their designs.

  5. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    Hehehe....here we go with this again....

    I suppose if someone is happy to save a buck and buy copy-cat gear, more power to them.

    Behringer reminds me of those guys you see at swap-meets selling $150 "Oakley" sunglasses for $10 a pair.

    Can't tell the difference, right? Well, maybe not the day you buy them. It's only a matter of time until you find out the hard way they are fakes.

  6. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    I will NEVER, EVER purchase a Behringer product because of this nonsense. Its dishonest, its stealing, and credit needs to be given to the people who put their talent, hard work and sweat to designing quality stuff for us.
  7. Fishface


    Jul 26, 2002
    Denver, Colorado
    I almost bought a Behringer EP1500, but guilt got the better of me. :meh:

    I almost bought an RMX, but they are made in China (guilt again). The PLX was too much for my budget.

    I eventually got a Carvin amp (DCM1000). Made in the USA.

    Fender Jazz: Made in the USA.

    Sansamp RBI: Made in the USA.

    My work is tied into manufacturing, and we've been so slow for the last 3 years. Much of it has to do with so much manufacturing moving to China. :mad:
  8. Bob...why on earth do you guys let them copy your designs ?

    Surely you can stop what appears to be a breach of patent.

  9. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    u4riabass....why are you so worried about Behringer ripping off QSC? You bought one of the copy cat amps yourself?????

    Until people stop buying this stuff, Behringer will keep doing it.

  10. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Not to step in for Bob, but its not a matter of "letting" someone copy a design - they just do it without notice until it hits the market, then someone goes "hmmmm". The legal recourse can be quite expensive to pursue, as well as time consuming. Many businesses simply make a judgment call on the legal fees much to their aggravation.

    Personally, I wish every legitimate manufacturer would slam them at every turn, and that judges would award punitive damages and put Behringer out of business.
  11. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Behringer are too blardy cocky. Not are they flaunting the law and copying everybody, now they're insisting that stores that want to stock their products must pay cash up front. It plain wreaks of over-confidence and I hope it bursts their bubble!
  12. I would never buy Behringer gear. They are distructive to quality, innovative companies like QSC and Mackie, and their stuff is inferior.


  13. hibeam


    Oct 16, 2002

    My sentiments exactly.
  14. VicDamone


    Jun 25, 2000
    My QSC PLX is dented and scratched I've dropped it hard and I've even tripped over it. Now my kid uses it with little or no respect.

    IT SHOULD BE BROKEN, but it hasn't missed a beat. If I were to copy a contempory pro amp it would be a QSC.

    Thanks QSC
  15. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
  16. I love the behringer stuff I own. Great gear.
  17. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Great. Now send Mackie a thankyou card!
  18. D.A.R.K.


    Aug 20, 2003
    behringer makes money off of quantity sales, not per unit, and that's why they are so cheap.
    they also copy so that they don't have to pay for research and development.
    that said, their stuff is junk, just like qsc...
  19. I must admit that I have no problem buying a product that retails at nearly half of the price of the product that it is based upon but only (and I cant stress this enough) as it will be a backup rehearsal rig only...... I cant find a USED power amp of equal power for that price in the UK..trust me I have been looking for some time.

    The PA I own and run in the band uses 4 Crown MA1200 series amps. These cost a hell of a lot, but I knew I could rely on them to be built like a tank and keep running regardless of what is thrown at them. They cost over two times as much each USED as the behringer..and yes I do know why..

    Sorry guys...but no regrets at all..Like I said its for a rehearsal/backup rig at the end of the day. The problem lies with the industry and its unfair to point the finger at the end user, who is generally in the dark to all these goings on.

    As a footnote, I am suprised (Naive of me I know) that this goes on in the industry in such a blatent manner. I simply have always assumed that the patent laws would prevent such obvious copies being manufactured, and as such have assumed that peple like behringer are doing it all under licence.
  20. geshel


    Oct 2, 2001
    The patent laws will only protect things that are patented. ;) Now, I've heard that B. have copied patented bits of Mackie designs (mic pre's) so who knows. And I do see one patent # on the back of my PLX3002, but I don't have an RMX handy.


    - if they copy something patented, then lawsuits must be brought on by the patent holder. This (the copying) wastes lots of money and time for everybody, so I consider it fairly dumb

    - for non-patented bits: I would think that one has to assume, when selling a product, that any aspects of its design that are not patented or trademarked are fair game. Not touching the debate over place or methods of manufacture, copying useful but un-patented designs is not only nothing new, but a really good thing (before capitalism it was called "tradition" :D ). It woudl be pretty dumb if everybody had to make their product different in every way from all the other ones, right? So it seems a bit silly to me that if somebody makes something that is similar in *every* way (except trademark), somehow they've crossed an invisible line that makes them "unethical" -- "oh my, that's just a COPY!"

    This might not be what anyone here is saying (like I said there's a big debate on place of manufacture, and then the issue of "driving other companies out of business", which is a rather interesting subject) - but it seems like a common feeling.

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