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QSC PLX1602 or Eden Navigator Problem

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by amac, Nov 11, 2004.


  1. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Ok, last night at a gig I couldn't get ANY volume out of my rig.
    Eden Navigator into a QSC PLX1602 (ran bridged, filters on, limiters on) pushing an acme B2 @ 8 ohms. Everything was working fine three days ago. I was able to play the gig last night running straight into the board, so it wasn't the bass.

    The power amp signal indicator would barely light up (power indicators and bridge/parallel indicators were fine). I would get a barely audible sound from the speaker. I usually get a signal right under clipping with the amp at around 2 o'clock, and it's quite loud. I barely got a signal pushing it all the way.

    The navigator appeared to be working fine. But I ran my signal through a direct box (sound guy's suggestion), and we were running so behind on a sound check that I didn't have a chance to see if the navigator was sending a good signal out.

    I checked and swapped out my cables from the pre to the power amp, and from the power amp to the speaker. No change. I also ran the signal mono and tried both channels of the power amp, but had the same results. It almost sounds like the input regulator inside the preamp needs to be changed, but it was working three days ago and has been sitting in its rack untouched. Also, having read previous posts, it seems the nav would be putting too much out if I changed the input selector. I'll still try that when I get home.

    Anyone have any thoughts? Bob Lee? I hate the thought of owning a $500 paper weight.
     
  2. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    By "input regulator" do you mean the little internal switch behind the crossover section? If so, take the lid off and give it a try, it made worlds of difference to my Nav through my PLX3002. If you don't like it, you can press it and switch it right back. Also, bypass all limiters to see if that has effect on the level.

    Also, be sure your QSC wasn't manufactured in '98 or '99, if so there is a ribbon cable defect which QSC repairs for free, regardless of warranty expiration. I had that problem, and it resulted in a SEVERE reduction in level, but pressing the QSC's gain knobs inward would demonstrate the glitch. Check your serial number for those dates!

    Other than that, I'd suspect a component failure in either unit. Be sure to check the settings on the back of your QSC, one time I had a soundman fiddle with mine unbeknownst to me. Also, be sure your speakon bridging cable is set +1 +2 on the QSC side, and +1 -1 on the cab side.
     
  3. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Yes. I will try that tonight.

    I'll be sure to check the serial number tonight as well. Thanks for the tips.
     
  4. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Well, I tried the internal switch on my Nav - no change.

    I tried turning off the limiter and filters on the QSC - no change.

    And according to the serial number, it was made in Oct. 2002 (100252647).
     
  5. Are you using your Modulus? It's active, right? Have you tried plugging your bass directly into the PLX? IIRC the Navigator has an effects loop so you could also try plugging into the effects return. If there's an improvement we're on the right track to isolating the problem.
     
  6. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Yes, I'm using the Modulus (18V) so I will definitely try that. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  7. I'm not very good at this stuff but, something is squashing your signal. Once I had a bad preamp tube that did what you describe. If you have an exta pre tube/tubes check it out.
     
  8. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    'Nuther test: Does the volume fluctuate if you apply slight pressure (inward) to the PLX's gain knobs when playing? That is a sign of the bad ribbon cable problem. Worth a shot, anyway.

    Also try replacing the tube, even with a $5 cheapie, just to see if that's the problem.
     
  9. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    I tried pressure on the gain knobs last night. Nothing.

    I'm going to try and plug my modulus directly into QSC PLX and see if I get anything. I'm also going to try and borrow a power amp from my church on Sunday to see if I can isolate the problem to either the Nav or PLX.
     
  10. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Well, I've isolated the component that is the problem: Navigator.

    I plugged the modulus directly into the PLX and was rocking and rolling. So I went out and bought a new tube for the preamp (12AX7 Electro-Harmonix), in the hopes this was causing the problem. No dice. Same results with a new tube. :crying:

    Any other ideas before I get on the phone with Eden?

    My brother in law is giving me a Sansamp Bass Driver DI that I can use until I get the Nav working again.
     
  11. Although I no longer use Eden gear I've had plenty of it and their customer serivce is very good in my experience. I would send it into them or ask Eden who they recommend Tech-wise in your area. If the tube didn't fix it send it in.
     
  12. I had something similar happen. It was a failed component in the gain stage.

    Try running some input like a CD player or iPOD, etc. into the aux inputs and the effects returns. If you get usual output volume from there you've isolated it to the gain stage as all those inputs are post gain.

    Then call Eden and get an RMA. They'll fix it.
     
  13. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    I'll give it a try. Thank you.
     
  14. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    Well I gave this a try, and the volume was better than the bass, but not "loud." Having never tried this previously, I don't have a reference for how loud it should be.

    I'll be giving Eden a call soon.
     
  15. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    I thought I would update this post. No, it's not fixed yet. But the problem is with the "power out" (what the eden tech said) of the pre-amp. Basically, something is wrong with all the outputs on the pre-amp. I'm going to call a local, authorized service shop and see if I can get some sort of estimate. It may be awhile before I get this one fixed ($). However, I've found out that I can run a 1/4" from the headphone jack to my power amp, and it's all good. I've been using the Sansamp Bass DI as a pre-amp, but it doesn't drive the power amp (1100W, bridged mono@8ohm) as much as the Eden. Still loud, but the eden would clip the power-amp easily (I don't run it clipping, but it would); the sansamp has a hard time.

    Here's a pic of the rig. I love it. However, the past few times I played for the teens at my church, I've run my setup through a dual 18" yamaha sub instead of the B-2. OMG! Given me a GAS attack. Need...more...speakers...more...power... :help: Or at the very least another B-2. ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  16. From the Nav? I'd imagine that'd give you a high noise level.

    FYI. I recommend shipping it to Eden for service. Their rates are competitive, turn around is 3-4 weeks (better then local shops in my area), they'll bring everything up to spec and latest rev, not just fix the obvious and you can put it under extended warranty if you'd like.

    It's the "old" Eden gang in MN. that does the break/fix. Highly recommended.
     
  17. snailplow

    snailplow Leon Phelps Wanna Be

    I have the EXACT same problem with my Navigator,running through a Crest CPX1500.What a shame. :scowl:
     
  18. amac

    amac

    Oct 9, 2002
    Commerce, Georgia
    I'll be sure to post back after I get it fixed. May be a while, but I will.