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Question for some you old timers whos played bass a long time

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by gary mitchell, Apr 10, 2010.


  1. I use a 750 SWR WORKINGPRO HEAD, a GS Aguilar 210 and a Peavey Black Widow LOW RIDER 18. A Fender USA P Bass. I got volume , but just dont have that smooth creamy bottom, I want. Dont get me wrong with the 18 I can shake your guts out. I like the 18 but with out the 10s to me it sucks. Maybe I need to use a 410 cab with the 18. I use a 350 SWR at Church with just a 410 at low volumes but in a big building and love it. I use a Squire P Bass there the church owns. I use my 750 for bigger gigs. I play rock and country and blues, but when Iam by myself I like a Jazz type sound. I know I need a Jazz Bass. but trully what is a good all around speaker config, 410, 210s and a 15 or 18, 410s a 15 or 18 maybe just 410s are 8 10s Iam fairly new at this. so can you guys give me any Idea what speaker configuration gives what sound any you old timers
     
  2. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    the 18 is the weak link here. it's an old cab with a black widow that probably doesn't go any lower than your gs210 but sounds like it does because there's no high end ;) but even though 210's have the frequency response, they often don't have a lot of kickass-ness.

    so what i'd do is ditch the 18" and get a second gs210, then stack them vertically with all the drivers even and the bottom tweeter off. you will get everything you're looking for from the 18" in a nice tall stack of 10"s that give you all the benefits of a 410 (including increased low end response) but with the throw of an 810. unfortunately they're discontinued, but i'd look for one used and hop on it.
     
  3. The Peavey Low Rider 18 is rated at 1600 watts,800watts continuous. Usable frequency range 25 Hz -500 Hz 4in voice coil weight 22lbs I dont know what the specs are on my aguilars.
     
  4. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    i'd like to see what peavey considers "usable" at 25hz. well i don't know, that was my opinion of what i'd do. maybe others might have an idea how to get the best out of what you have.
     
  5. waleross

    waleross

    Nov 27, 2009
    South Florida
    How about an Ampeg 410HLF used , if possible and ditch the 18" ?
     
  6. Hoover

    Hoover Banned

    Nov 2, 2007
    New York City
    I've owned two different Peavey Black Widow 18" cabs over the years, and neither one of them could come close to putting out 25Hz even if you gave them a running start and a 4 shot handicap.
     
  7. Like I said Iam New at this, what is the frequency range of a 4 string Fender P Bass and a Jazz bass I use Fender Flatwound strings just because I like the feel and to me they sound better. I do thank you guys for your advice. I thought I quit spending money for a while and listen to some of you guys and your ideas and go from there Iam about penny less, listening to the guys in the band. Most of you guys know more then I do.
     
  8. These 18s are new from Peavey you can look them up they are call Low Riders. they have them in a 15 and 18. I just read THE specs on the box. On the front of the box it has a big stop sign, that reads STOP WIMPY BASS. They list like 300 bucks maybe are 250 anyway I got this on sale at Guitar Resurection I think for 229.00
     
  9. lowphatbass

    lowphatbass **** Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    west coast
    My guess is the Peavey can move some air but doesn't have the supporting frequencies to sure-up the bottom end and give it definition and meaning. If you like a big, smooth bottom 4 10's is probably the way to go. 18's can be pretty nifty in the right context, but you've only got so many watts to go around.
     
  10. ARE Sound Man he told me I should get a power amp of some kind and run my swr into the 210s then come out of my head some how in to the power amp and run it to the 18. Sounds like alot of work to me. I would have to use a bigger rack that would fit my swr and the power amp but I have that. I told him dude I just want to stand on the stage in front of my amp and have it sound good to me.
     
  11. Hoover

    Hoover Banned

    Nov 2, 2007
    New York City
    Probably missing some punctuation; it was supposed to say "STOP! WIMPY BASS!"
     
  12. tifftunes

    tifftunes Guest

    If you are looking for more of an old school sound to go with your P bass and flats, a single 2x15 cab will get it (or two 1x15s).

    The most modern approach is what JimmyM described, and probably the most appropriate.

    I'm replacing speakers in my two sealed 2x12 cabs to get what I'm after. If I didn't already have these, I'd go with the two 2x10 cab idea mahself! :bassist:
     
  13. Iam sure your right but at 58yrs old I should care the way I write and stuff but I dont. Since Iam semi retired Ive sort of let myself go. I dont even own a watch anymore. I just want to play Bass. But I will use them this one time ?!.,"::;;;:::;;;"""""""??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  14. The fundamental frequency of the low E string is about 40 hz, and the low B on a 5 string is about 32 hz. However, a bass guitar doesn't really produce much energy at fundamental frequencies. It produces a lot more energy at the first harmonic and higher (double the fundamental frequency). There's no need for a bass amp to go down to 25 hz. Frequency response specs on bass guitar speakers may give you some information, but they aren't the bottom line by a long shot. Ampeg SVT cabs roll off at around 50hz if I recall, and I don't think anyone would say they suffer from lack of low end.
     
  15. Murph#2

    Murph#2

    Mar 24, 2010
    murph#2
    YUP Ditch the 18
     
  16. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    I agree. Get another 210 and stack them so that all four are in a line vertically. You'll get plenty of low end with 4 tens as most anything below 100hz is not that usable anyway. Your low E is 40Hz, but you are more likely to hear and notice the second or third harmonics of that low E (being 80Hz and 120Hz respectively). Few cabs even put out much at 40Hz regardless of what their specs say.

    While the size of the speaker doesn't really matter with regards to tone, I do feel that four 10" speakers will give you the low end tone you want far better than a single 18 will.
     
  17. Bob C

    Bob C

    Mar 26, 2000
    Duluth, MN
    Gary,

    I know how frustrating it can be to go through lots of gear and money chasing a sound. But I tend to agree with others here that the 18, even if it IS loud and low isn't giving you "audible" results. And the 2X10 isn't picking up the slack. It's probably not a great match of cabinets. The sub bass thump may be exactly what dancers want out of a PA, but not what you need on stage.

    Your soundman is probably talking about biamping your system, with a crossover and seperate power sources for each speaker system. Or maybe he just wants you to increase your overall power. There's some merit to that, but I think replacing the 18 with another 2X10 will be a straighter path to a happy solution.

    Is it possible to borrow or rent any cabs from your local music store for you upcoming gigs? Trying different equipment in different configurations and combinations is the only way you will find out what works for you. Some stores will not "loan out", but WILL sell you gear with a 48 hour return or exchange policy.

    Good luck. Don't give up!
     
  18. shoot-r

    shoot-r

    May 26, 2007
    Illinois
    +1...
    I'm with a loud, 6 pcs., country/rock group and recently went to a vertical stacked 410 rig.
    "Two" Avatar Neo 210 cabinets driven by a G.K. MB2-500 head.
    Two 210's stacked in the vertical will give you the height advantage of a 810 cabinet, (speakers up closer to your ears), but with a small foot-print on stage, better mids dispersion, better cut, no low end loss, and better projection than a standard 410 cab. The four 10's will give you a "tighter" feeling low end than your 18 and will feel faster and sound clearer.
    With the easier to move two 210's you can use one cab for rehearsals/small gigs, both cabs when more volume and coverage is needed.
    And for "us" old geezer players...both my Neo cabs and the G.K. MB2-500 head together weighs less than the SVT head alone did that I used many years ago!
     
  19. duderasta

    duderasta

    Feb 25, 2010
    Tampa, FL
    I have an old peavey 1810, Peavey 18's are pretty weak, and have a fairly shallow profile, and short throw. I replaced the 18 with a 600 watt Carvin 18, and I replaced the 10's also. But I really only find the 18 useful outdoors or in big rooms.

    I haven't gone lightweight yet, but mostly just use these 2 Eden D212XLT, D210MBX plenty for most any situation
     
  20. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    I'm going to disagree with al the posts I've seen here so far. While the BW 18 and the GS 210 wouldn't be my first choice for "smooth creamy low end" in a blues-rock band, changing your cabs or drivers will not solve your problem. The SWR 750 is a very clean, sterile sounding head, the last thing it will produce is a creamy smooth blues rock low end. The creamiest low end I've ever heard on a head is the Aguliar 750, Next I would look at the Mesa M-Pulse or maybe look for a used tube head. You need head that produces closer to the tube side of the spectrum, the SWR is designed to do just the opposite. That smooth creamy low end your talking about isn't going to come out of your rig no matter what cabs you get. The head just won't produce it
     

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