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Question on running clean and dirty signals

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Vic Winters, Oct 20, 2006.


  1. Vic Winters

    Vic Winters Supporting Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Western NY
    When running a stereo setup with one signal clean and the other dirty, how close in power should the two amps be? Would a setup with a 450 watt clean channel and and 300 watt dirty channel sound decent, or would it be best to have them recieving the same amount of power?
     
  2. BruceWane

    BruceWane

    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX
    Depends on how you're going to run it........

    The way I did it, I used a clean rig that was on all the time, and a distortion rig that I switched on and off on top of the clean sound using a Morley ABY switch. I didn't switch between them. In this case, the dirty rig could be a lot less wattage, since the clean rig was carrying all the low end. The dirty rig had all the bass eq'ed out - very tinny and thin sounding by itself, but just fine mixed with the clean rig.
     
  3. Vic Winters

    Vic Winters Supporting Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Western NY
    I figure I'm going to do the same thing or something similar to that. What would be a good wattage for the dirty signal when the clean will be 450?
     
  4. bongomania

    bongomania Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    A guitarist can get away with using a 15 W amp for his dirt, so as long as you dial out the low frequencies, almost anything will do.
     
  5. uly_

    uly_

    Jul 4, 2005
    Denmark
    You will be just fine with the 300 watts for the dirty channel. On the dirty amp you won't (I wouldn't at least) go with my low-end EQ, instead focusing on the mids/high mids to make it cut through.

    Hell, when I ran dual amp setup I was using a MAG-300H head with a 4x10" cab for clean and a 15" 60 watt (solid state !!) for dirtyness! That wasn't a problem at all :) just ran a line-out (DI) to the PA at all times with both amps. I remember that I cut all the Bass / low mids on the dirty-amp and just cranked the **** out of it volume-wise. Who cares if it exploded :D the more dirt the better.
     
  6. Vic Winters

    Vic Winters Supporting Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Western NY
    So bare minimum would be around 100? Also, better to use a splitter, or bi-amp?
     
  7. bongomania

    bongomania Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    I would be inclined to use a splitter so the clean channel got a full-range signal, and then send only the mids and highs to the dirty channel using either a crossover or an EQ. But it might sound pretty cool just bi-amping, and that might be easier/cheaper, so give it a try!
     
  8. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    It all depends on what you think sounds good, this tone stuff is pretty subjective, opinions vary on what sounds good but a lot of us can agree on what sounds bad, a lot of guys like running dirty in the mids/top end while maintaining a clean, tight low end, this may float your boat or it may not. My personal flavor would be to maintain as much clean power as you can on the bottom and mix in dirt to taste which would require a crossover of some sort of better yet separate EQ's to cut what you don't want out of each channel. What's your setup and more importantly what kind of music do you play regularly?
     
  9. uly_

    uly_

    Jul 4, 2005
    Denmark
    As an alternative you could do this:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. SubMonkey

    SubMonkey

    May 3, 2004
    Denver, CO
  11. uly_

    uly_

    Jul 4, 2005
    Denmark
    SubMonkey:

    Thats a cool rig you have got there :) And nice tunes your band has come up with.

    May I ask why you put a BDDI in front of the classic 400? Don't you like the tone of your amp, or?
     
  12. Vic Winters

    Vic Winters Supporting Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Western NY
    I play alot of alt. rock, some originals, some covers. My set up right now is Bass (Mainly SX SJB75)->PD7->105Q->Fab Chorus->DOD Bass 30->Behringer BX4210A with Eminence Beta 10's. The reason why I'm looking to run a clean and dirty signal is to prevent as much tone suck as possible. Ever since I replaced the stock aluminum drivers with the Betas, I've noticed a vast increase in mid range growl and bite when its just bass to amp. But throw a few pedals in the mix, on or off, and I lose the bite I crave. I tried running through the effects loop, but it wasn't much better. I tried a test run of the split signal, both using a Morley A/B/Y and bi-amping with the DOD Bass 30 while keeping the BX4210A clean and using my Peavey Microbass for the dirty. The Microbass developed a really bad hum in both cases (split and bi-amped), whether effects were on or not. It's practically silent when I plug my bass directly into, not sure why it acted like that.

    My idea is to take the old aluminum drivers, throw them in a new box, and use them for the dirty mids and highs. Something like this:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/210-Bass-Speake...ryZ47094QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    Yes, I know I need T/S specs and all that, but its hard when you don't know what the drivers require. Basically all I know is that the combo they were in is about 89L and this is about 103L.

    Since I don't need the bass frequency, would a guitar head be possible? If so I'd like to use the Crate CPB150 (cheap, good power rating, light and nice crunch) but I don't think I can match impedance, it has 8 ohm mono and 2 - 4 ohm stereo, while both aluminum drivers are 8 ohm each.

    If anyone has any insight, that'd be much appreciated.
     
  13. syciprider

    syciprider Inactive

    May 27, 2005
    Inland Empire
    Here you go:
    My actual rig. The Loooper has two outs. One that goes through the loops and one that is pass thru. Of course, the effects loops can be bypassed as well for two channels of clean.
    [​IMG]

    Setting aside my choice of heavy cabs, it may give you an idea of how to wire everything up.

    As was pointed out above, you can get away with less power on the effects since you can EQ out all the bass. I do that and also boost the mids to make the distortion effects really stand out. Speaking of distortion, I also keep the SVTCL channel clean so I can get the natural tube OD.
     
  14. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Quite right. Not only do you need very little power, you also don't need much of a speaker. In fact, stacking a 20 watt guitar combo above your bass rig to handle dirt duty works really well. Use an A/B/A+B switch to take the guitar amp in and out.
     
  15. SubMonkey

    SubMonkey

    May 3, 2004
    Denver, CO
    It's actually dialled up fairly "neutral" ... I keep it in the rig for 3 reasons;

    1. I do use it to add a little low end (blend knob is at 25% bass is around 65% and all else is dialled as close to neutrally as my ears can get)

    2. It is the device that splits this signal into a wah/dirty path, and a clean/compressed path).

    3. In case all hell breaks loose and I have an amp problem at a gig, I've got a passable DI for FOH immediately on hand.

    SM
     
  16. Vic Winters

    Vic Winters Supporting Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Western NY
    Would an Ebtech Hum Eliminator solve the problem I'm having with my Microbass? Bass + effects to Microbass = no hum, but A/B'd with the other amp and I get hum.
     
  17. Vic Winters

    Vic Winters Supporting Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Western NY
    Bump for a few more questions.

    My idea is to take the old aluminum drivers, throw them in a new box, and use them for the dirty mids and highs. Something like this:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/210-Bass-Speaker...QQcmdZViewItem

    Yes, I know I need T/S specs and all that, but its hard when you don't know what the drivers require. Basically all I know is that the combo they were in is about 89L and this is about 103L.

    Can I use a guitar head?

    Would an Ebtech Hum Eliminator solve the problem I'm having with my Microbass? Bass + effects to Microbass = no hum, but A/B'd with the other amp and I get hum.
     
  18. Vic Winters

    Vic Winters Supporting Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Western NY
    Anyone?
     

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