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Question Re: BAG END Speakers...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Ionic Eye, Jul 20, 2002.


  1. Ionic Eye

    Ionic Eye

    May 13, 2002
    Columbus, OH
    Hi, I have a question! I'm really liking what I've been reading about Bag End cabinets, but I'm wondering about this:

    Does Bag End make their own speakers?

    I'd always assumed they did, but I read a review of an S15B-D cab, and they guy said something like, "Mine has an EV speaker; most have Eminence."

    Is this true? Do they use Eminence speakers? Doesn't Carvin use Eminence speakers? I thought Bag End was their own high-end animal, so to speak...

    Also, I always thought SWR made their own speakers until I bought a Mo' Bass and read the supplied catalog; they use speakers from a variety of speaker-makers in their cabs, but one of the companies listed was Bag End; therefore, I am now officially confused!

    Thanks for any clarification... Matt
     
  2. coyoteboy

    coyoteboy easy there, Ned Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2000
    Sactomato, CA
    I could be mistaken, but I believe that Bag End drivers are made by Eminence, like most other company's drivers (in the US, and excluding Eden)

    It's also my understanding that unlike other companies, who may or may not have drivers built by Eminence to thier spec's, Bag End drivers are produced by Eminence in a wing of the Eminence shop dedicated to producing Bag End drivers, perhaps for quality control purposes, and perhaps for a higher volume of production of Bag End drivers as opposed to production of other companies' proprietary drivers. Was that all one sentence??
     
  3. Ionic Eye

    Ionic Eye

    May 13, 2002
    Columbus, OH
    Coyoteboy: thanks for the response; I guess it's like getting Bartolini to make custom pickups for a bass, then? I'd still like to hear from someone who DEFINITELY knows the situation; also, is Eden really the only U.S. cab manufacturer that also make their own speakers? What about any other cab makers that use their own speakers? It seems to me like there's only so much you can do with screws, plywood and ports...
    Matt
     
  4. boobinga

    boobinga

    Feb 9, 2001
    Pacific NW
    If I wanted the straight scoop, I'd call Bag End direct at (847) 382-4551 and ask them.
     
  5. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    Eminence builds a wide range of drivers, from budget stamped framed drivers for lower end cabs to cast framed monsters that you'll find in the highest end bass cabs. I hope you're not equating them making drivers for Carvin with their overall capabilities.
     
  6. PBFACTOR

    PBFACTOR Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2001
    Boise, ID
    i had a bag end 5" mid bass in my swr baby blue combo. it stopped working. i called them and they want $101.50 for a single 5" mid bass. i replaced it with a bose hd 4" mid bass speaker and it works great. i was kind of put off by the way swr and bag end responded.
     
  7. PBFACTOR

    PBFACTOR Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2001
    Boise, ID
    they seemed annoyed that i called them about a speaker of theirs that went bad.
     
  8. Ionic Eye

    Ionic Eye

    May 13, 2002
    Columbus, OH
    So, not to beat a dead horse, but I'm confused again; Bag End makes speakers for SWR, but uses Eminence in their own cabs? Does Bag End only make small, midrange speakers? Why not make larger bass drivers, too?

    And I'm not equating a "Bag End" Eminence with a "Carvin" Eminence, because I don't have enough information on which to base such a claim; as I mentioned, I didn't even know that Eminence MADE speakers for Bag End; I'd always assumed Bag End made their own.
    If Eminence does make the speakers that both Carvin and Bag End use, then yeah, I'd suppose that the Bag End ones were of a higher quality; at least, I'd HOPE they were!

    So would all of Bag End's 15" speakers (the ones I'm most interested in!) be made by Eminence, then?

    Yeah, I'll contact Bag End; but again, this IS the "TalkBass Forum", where we're supposed to discuss things bass-ic in nature, and ask questions; I thought other people might be interested in who, exactly, makes Bag End speakers!

    BTW, I scoured Bag End's website, but couldn't find any mention of them making or who made their speakers.

    Again, thanks for any info! Peace... Matt
     
  9. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    Go to www.eminence.com and you'll find out Bag End uses eminence. I think SWR uses Bag End speakers only in there 1x18(kicks massive bottom with quick response!) unlike in the past.

    Bag End speakers=Eminence speakers

    They all come from the same place. SWR also uses PAS speakers which are made by eminence. The difference is that the specs of all these speakers are different from the ones you see on the eminence site. Bag End's 1x15 should be made by Eminence.
     
  10. PBFACTOR

    PBFACTOR Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2001
    Boise, ID
    i just wanted to buy a new speaker.
     
  11. PBFACTOR

    PBFACTOR Supporting Member

    Dec 21, 2001
    Boise, ID
    i didn't and wouldn't buy a bag end speaker. i replaced it with a bose. they weren't very helpful. you may have better luck. i don't give 2nd chances.
     
  12. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Yeah, I think there are only a few major makers of speaker drivers in the world:

    - Eminence (US)
    - Pyle (US)
    - Pioneer (Japan)
    - EV (US)
    - Peerless/Vifa/Scan-Speak (Europe. not sure if these are the same - I think they've been conglomerated?)
    - Focal (France)

    There are many brands of speakers, but whether or not they really make their own or order from these guys (who have the massive factories), is hard to find out. There's a distinct lack of straightforwardness in the industry as to who builds what drivers.
     
  13. It doesn't surprise me that speakers are much like everything else you buy these days.

    Very few companies make all their own components. Electronic chips are one example. Intel sells its Pentium chips to a number of different computer manufacturers. And the resistors, capacitors, transistors and/or tubes in all of our amps are made by specialized component makers.

    The differences in musical instrument items such as amps and cabs are related to the design -- in other words, how all the components are put together to get a characteristic sound and level of quality. For example, an Ampeg and a Gallien-Krueger are two VERY different sounding amps. Whether you like one, the other, or neither, they both still have a reputation for a certain quality level that is reasonably high to high. The differences are in the type and number of components specified, and the designer's vision of how they prefer an amp to sound. Costs (and therefore price) relate to this as well; sometimes compromises are made to reach a price point.

    As a lot of threads on this board discuss in (often) gruesome detail, the design of a cabinet in relation to the driver that is chosen for it has a marked effect on the sound. All the drivers on the Eminence site, for example, have different Thiele-Small parameters. Even if only a few companies actually have a facility that they tool up to make different drivers, it may be the case that the single factory has different proprietary tooling for a number of different brands.

    DISCLAIMER: I KNOW NOTHING OF EDEN'S BUSINESS AT ALL, AND THEY MAY IN FACT HAVE THEIR OWN FACTORY WHERE THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES MAKE THEIR OWN DRIVERS FROM THEIR OWN DESIGNS IN A SITE THAT THEY OWN OR LEASE, ON TOOLS THAT THEY OWN OR LEASE. But I really doubt that this is the case. In my opinion, it is far more likely that they have their own fully-owned tooling, and they have an OEM factory build the drivers. The costs of doing that aspect of the business are so high that the number of Eden speakers made could never justify the expense. If they DO own their own factory -- not just the tooling -- they are likely to make drivers for others just to gain the efficiencies of higher plant production. Machines lying idle don't make money for a firm. How many Eden drivers are sold in a year, worldwide? Certainly fewer that a fully-equipped modern factory could make in a year.

    However, Eden's quality -- real and/or perceived, and I think it's real -- is due to their constant oversight of the factory processes and the efforts of the designers and specification engineers. These are the people in a company that make the difference in today's manufacturing world. And they are only one example.

    Today, even cheap gear is OK, if not kind of good. 35 years ago, cheap gear sucked, big time. I know. I was there. Three words for all of my contemporaries will say it all: Teisco del Rey. You couldn't gig with that crap. You CAN gig with a MIM Jazz Bass or a MIM Precision. Even a Rogue. Not so before. It's a better manufacturing world out there. Even though most manufacturing is done by other people than the folks whose name is on the label.

    As always, just my 2 cents.
     
  14. HeavyDuty

    HeavyDuty Supporting Curmudgeon Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Jun 26, 2000
    Suburban Chicago, IL
    Bag End has some of the finest customer service I've ever experienced, both before and after the sale. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone.
     
  15. coyoteboy

    coyoteboy easy there, Ned Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2000
    Sactomato, CA
    It's made by Eminence, but it is still a Bag End brand speaker, model E-12. I believe that if you look at the rear of the driver it will say Bag End, and not "Bag End by Eminence", while the back of the driver in my Epifani cabinet says Eminence. Sure, it's just a label, but the drivers are made according to different spec's, right?

    <--seriously thinking of getting a Bag End Q10
     
  16. Ionic Eye

    Ionic Eye

    May 13, 2002
    Columbus, OH
    Mr. Josh Walsh: did the article say WHO made the Bag End 12" speaker? Until I read that last post of yours, it sounded like Eminence DID make all of Bag End's speakers, a fact I had slowly come to accept(!).

    Geshel: Pyle, eh? I remember my brother, in around 1986 or so, had 2 Pyle 8" (maybe 10"?) Pyle Drivers in his Datsun 280ZX (I STILL love those cars!), and man, they ROCKED!

    Didn't I read something about a guy using car speakers to make a small Bass Cab?

    Last I knew of car stuff, there was an MTX 15" speaker that weighed about 60 lbs and was something like 2000W RMS, 4000W Max; Good Heavens.

    I wonder how top-end car woofers would compare to top-end bass speakers?
     
  17. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Thing is, car woofers are so inefficient that they would *need* that 4kw to play as loud as a good MI woofer :) Of course they would do it in a much smaller box. Also, they're mostly subwoofers, not designed for anything much above 200Hz at most. MI woofers in 2-way systems usually cover up to 2-3kHz.
     
  18. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    Now I'm confused :confused:.How long have they been using EV? On the Eminence site they have Bag End as a company that uses their speakers. Did they switch?
     
  19. Ionic Eye

    Ionic Eye

    May 13, 2002
    Columbus, OH
    Ah, that's a wrap, then! EV it is. Interesting, and good to know; next, off to the EV website, just for the he$l of it.

    I think the "Mr." seemed appropriate, given that pic of yours...:)

    Anyway, thanks for the info, and I hope you won't blame me for that long distance phone charge you just accrued...

    Peace, Matt
     
  20. coyoteboy

    coyoteboy easy there, Ned Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2000
    Sactomato, CA
    I hope this doesn't throw a wrench in the works here, but I thought I heard that EV was no longer making even thier own speakers. I suppose I could be mistaking EV for JBL, but I want to remember that it was a major maker of PA enclosures, and that it was EV.

    I have no doubt of the voracity of what you heard from Bag End, it just struck me as strange, then again, I could just be way off and remembering everything wrong...it wouldn't be the first time.